Intemittent tripping RCD.

[bigbadjohn]

********s

 

[shanky887614]

MK Sentry units were (down to reset and up to close) like that until a few years back, not Hager as far as I am aware. The current MK Sentry Consumer Units are diabolical.

they trip to middle don't they.

 

[andyelectric]

The bottom line is, a Electrical Trainee won’t have had the time needed to learn fault finding techniques.

It’s something we put a lot of time and effort in to teaching our apprentices. To the point of sabotaging a plant to let them take charge and find the fault on their own. Out of their time they would need to be able to get something running quickly, downtime at £XXXX’s per minute adds a bit of urgency. Only a structured testing method will achieve that.

However.

A Electrical Trainee will not be as time pressured as they will be in a domestic situation. And, dependent on previous experience they may be well versed in fault finding.

You are full of generalisations.

 

[R G]

they trip to middle don't they.

You will find they go to a middle position and you have to latch them down and up to reset , this was something that came about on the MEM then Eaton Consumer units , Its a good facility as far as I am concerned , because it needs 2 definite actions to reset , the only thing is the home owner thinks its faulty as they can not understand why how to reset them , but easily explained though...

 

[shanky887614]

You will find they go to a middle position and you have to latch them down and up to reset , this was something that came about on the MEM then Eaton Consumer units , Its a good facility as far as I am concerned , because it needs 2 definite actions to reset , the only thing is the home owner thinks its faulty as they can not understand why how to reset them , but easily explained though...

yeah, ive come across them a few times. i really like them

 

[Engineer54]

However.

A Electrical Trainee will not be as time pressured as they will be in a domestic situation. And, dependent on previous experience they may be well versed in fault finding.

You are full of generalisations.

How else can you talk - refer - discuss electrical trainee's without making generalisations?? There are 100's of 1000's of them out there...

The fact that the vast majority would have had no electrical experience whatsoever before taking these useless/wishful thinking 17 day/5 Week courses, is a more than good enough reason to state that these chancers will have little to no fault finding skills. So your idea of these people being well versed in fault finding, is not far short of being hilarious!! In fact it's something you'd expect a electrical trainee to come out with....

 

[Marvo]

********s

Welcome to the forum bigbadjohn. As you may have noticed from your memorable first post, the forum has built-in filters to prevent bad language being used. Maybe try adding something constructive to the debate which doesn't trigger the filter.

**edit** I just saw your other 3 posts in the moderating queue......classy. They just earned you a 1 month ban before I deleted them. If you can't post in a civil manner you're going to be permanently banned next time.

 

[andyelectric]

How else can you talk - refer - discuss electrical trainee's without making generalisations?? There are 100's of 1000's of them out there...

The fact that the vast majority would have had no electrical experience whatsoever before taking these useless/wishful thinking 17 day/5 Week courses, is a more than good enough reason to state that these chancers will have little to no fault finding skills. So your idea of these people being well versed in fault finding, is not far short of being hilarious!! In fact it's something you'd expect a electrical trainee to come out with....

If you notice, I was replying to a quote. I doubt he needs you to speak up for him.

 

[Knobhead]

However.

A Electrical Trainee will not be as time pressured as they will be in a domestic situation. And, dependent on previous experience they may be well versed in fault finding.

You are full of generalisations.

How many come from a technical background?

While not pressured to the same extent as the industrial lads, they’re going to charge for their time. Time the customer has to pay for and therefore the customer should quite rightly expect an effective and efficient service.

Could you tell me what proportion of a 5 week course is dedicated to teaching fault finding techniques?

 

[trev]

you're allowed to say "arse". it's in the oxford english dictionary.

As are **** ******* **** ******** and **** The profanity filter doesn't like those words though

 

[andyelectric]

How many come from a technical background?

While not pressured to the same extent as the industrial lads, they’re going to charge for their time. Time the customer has to pay for and therefore the customer should quite rightly expect an effective and efficient service.

Could you tell me what proportion of a 5 week course is dedicated to teaching fault finding techniques?

I'm well aware that 'in general' you are correct. But this generalisation and constant deriding will have pushed a great deal of Electrical Trainee away from this site over the years.

And contrary to this being 'a good job'. What it means is that instead of being of low competence and seeking advice before doing a job, they will just crack on anyway sans advice. Trying to convince a DIYer not to complete a job and get an expert in is not the same as harassing a Electrical Trainee with such as 'Are you an Electrician?' etc.

Not providing advice to a DIYer is improving safety.

Not providing advice and instead harassing a Electrical Trainee is degrading safety.

 

[trev]

Not providing advice and instead harassing a Electrical Trainee is degrading safety.

However, how many 5WWs have we had on here asking the most basic of questions? Yet their CPS providers have badged them as competent. Are you saying that we should be encouraging them to carry out work which is clearly beyond their abilities?
I'd say that telling someone they're out of their depth is far more conducive to home owner safety than giving some chancer fresh out of a training centre a dot to dot guide as to how to install a 2w + intermediate switching arrangement.

 

[Knobhead]

I’ll assist any bona fide electrician.

The fast track courses as originally intended was a good idea in getting tradesmen back in to the mainstream. Some damned good lads came through this way.
Unfortunately the system was allowed to fall in to the hands of the money grubbers who have totally wrecked the trade I was once so proud of.

I choose not to help either DIY or incompetent Electrical Trainee’s as I regard them as charlatans and a disgrace to the trade. That is my prerogative.

 

[andyelectric]

However, how many 5WWs have we had on here asking the most basic of questions? Yet their CPS providers have badged them as competent. Are you saying that we should be encouraging them to carry out work which is clearly beyond their abilities?
I'd say that telling someone they're out of their depth is far more conducive to home owner safety than giving some chancer fresh out of a training centre a dot to dot guide as to how to install a 2w + intermediate switching arrangement.

Trev, I think you are wrong here and this is why.

A Electrical Trainee spends a couple of thousand to get trained. He then spends a fortune on tools and equipment, some even purchase a van. Then more expense on getting a scheme to certify him.


Do you really think someone who has spent all this money is going to listen to advice on a forum saying as you are not competent you shouldn't do the job.

What will happen is he will just ignore the forum and get on with it. Bear in mind he will have been told by his course and scheme that he is competent.

Far better I think to give advice and try and help therefore.

I see this as different to a DIYer where it may be possible to convince him he is unsafe and should get a professional in. Like it or not, the Electrical Trainee will see himself as a professional.

 

[andyelectric]

I’ll assist any bona fide electrician.

The fast track courses as originally intended was a good idea in getting tradesmen back in to the mainstream. Some damned good lads came through this way.
Unfortunately the system was allowed to fall in to the hands of the money grubbers who have totally wrecked the trade I was once so proud of.

I choose not to help either DIY or incompetent Electrical Trainee’s as I regard them as charlatans and a disgrace to the trade. That is my prerogative.

You are correct of course it is your prerogative to give advice to who you like. But see my answer to Trev as to why I see it as more rather than less safe to give advice.

 

[Marvo]

**snore** Same old same old. Lacking in Christmas spirit so thread closed.

 

[Guest112]

you haven't closed this one yet Mr Marvo

 

[trev]

Trev, I think you are wrong here and this is why.

A Electrical Trainee spends a couple of thousand to get trained. He then spends a fortune on tools and equipment, some even purchase a van. Then more expense on getting a scheme to certify him.


Do you really think someone who has spent all this money is going to listen to advice on a forum saying as you are not competent you shouldn't do the job.

What will happen is he will just ignore the forum and get on with it. Bear in mind he will have been told by his course and scheme that he is competent.

Far better I think to give advice and try and help therefore.

I see this as different to a DIYer where it may be possible to convince him he is unsafe and should get a professional in. Like it or not, the Electrical Trainee will see himself as a professional.

I and loads of others on here have spent thousands on training and equipment. The major difference is that we have had a long, structured process of on the job training and theoretical lessons to enable us to call ourselves electricians

 

[telectrix]

i see your point, andy, but also agree with tony. short courses were originally intended to get qualified sparks up to speed on latest regs, but then were hijacked to give chancers a short-cut into the trade, scams getting into the trough by boosting membership. our trade/profession is the only one whereby a 3-4 year course/training can be compressed into a few weeks, obviously most of the core knowledge is missing. any pillock can connect T/E cable and most of the time get the right size, but usually without the basics of why.

 

[andyelectric]

I and loads of others on here have spent thousands on training and equipment. The major difference is that we have had a long, structured process of on the job training and theoretical lessons to enable us to call ourselves electricians

I am quite aware of that Trev. But I think my argument stands that it is safer to give advice than not.

 

[Guest112]

I am quite aware of that Trev. But I think my argument stands that it is safer to give advice than not.

We do give advice...we let them know that they're not electricians and we advise them to go back to what they were doing before they leeched onto our trade...