Spur and lighting cct off a FCU protected spur?

[Pete E]

I am looking to install power and light into what was a "coal house" that is going to be used to hold a small domestic chest freezer.

The room itself is part of the fabric of the house, but is only accessible by an external door. The wiring run will be direct through the kitchen wall into the room itself ie no external wiring.

I have not looked at the existing wiring in detail yet, but it looks like there is a double socket (as part of the ringmain) with switched FCU protected spur leading to a socket below the kitchen work top that is for the washing machine.

Given this spur has an FCU already, can I simply run anotherspur off this socket into the coal house and fit a standard double socket with another FCU and a “spur”to feed a light?

I would use 2.5mm T&E for the power socket (less than a10 foot run) and then 1mm beyond the new FCU for the lighting part. I would then down rate the fuse in this light FCU to 3amp?

Would this be ok?

Thanks in advance,

Peter

 

[Pete999]

Not really 1 spur per socket on the Ring Final Circuit (RFC)

 

[telectrix]

come from the switched side of the existing FCU in the kitchen into your outhouse socket outlet, then int a 3A FCU for the light. sssssimplessss.

 

[Spoon]

Is the kitchen ring circuit protected with a RCD

 

[Flanders]

May be not a good idea to come of the switched side of the FCU because if the switched is turned off by accident the chest freezer will be turn off , I would go will Tel's method

 

[Pete E]

Is the kitchen ring circuit protected with a RCD

Not that I aware of, but will need to check properly.. Would an RCD be requirement/Good idea? I could fit an RCD protected socket in outhouse if required?

 

[Pete E]

May be not a good idea to come of the switched side of the FCU because if the switched is turned off by accident the chest freezer will be turn off , I would go will Tel's method

Thanks never thought of that aspect, but if I come off the switched side, it does risk the freezer being turned off..I might change the FCU to a non switched version.

If I do that, is there any reason I can't come offthe back of the socket below the worktop as it would be a better job far as the actual cabling goes..

 

[Flanders]

Any new socket you fit will have to be RCD protected < I miss Red Tels post , Your best not coming of the switched side of the spur as said you could accidently turn it of so I would come off Live side of FCU ( or any were else on the ring) to a 13 amp Unswitched FCU to supply a RCD socket then to a switched FCU with a 3 amp fuse to operate the light, as long as no off the cables are berried in the wall you will not have to fit RCD protection for the cabling

 

[Pete E]

Thanks for that, I think I've got it straight in my head now! Step daughter is moving house and this is one of several jobs I seem to have been "allocated" lol

 

[sparksburnout]

If there is no RCD protecting the RFC why not just connect the freezer directly into a cable-entry SFCU rather than use a socket? Be better as far as the freezer is concerned anyway.

 

[DPG]

If there is no RCD protecting the RFC why not just connect the freezer directly into a cable-entry SFCU rather than use a socket? Be better as far as the freezer is concerned anyway.

I don't like this idea. When the freezer needs replacing it's a sparky job. Daz

 

[sparksburnout]

I don't like this idea. When the freezer needs replacing it's a sparky job. Daz

Well the chap that is doing it ain't so whats the difference??

 

[Spoon]

Well the chap that is doing it ain't so whats the difference??

I think DPG is saying that if the OP does go along the route of a cable entry SFCU then he will get called out if the freezer needs replacing. Better to go with a socket.

 

[sparksburnout]

I was just thinking of all those rib eye steaks when the RCD trips........

 

[Spoon]

I was just thinking of all those rib eye steaks when the RCD trips........

You get paid too much.....

 

[Pete E]

Given step daughters record with freezer being left uplugged , switched off, the lid left up, or a combination of these, the more fool proof the installation, the better!

 

[Flanders]

As long as its installed correctly and the freezer is not faulty then there should be no reason for the RCD to trip , My freezer is protected by and RCD as it I the socket circuit on the RCD side of my 16th addition board and never had a problem for the last 15 years ,In this case That fact that its an RCD socket will help as the only thing that's going to trip out the RCD is The freezer if it developes a fault and there for possible save the life of the person in using it.

 

[telectrix]

As long as its installed correctly and the freezer is not faulty then there should be no reason for the RCD to trip , My freezer is protected by and RCD as it I the socket circuit on the RCD side of my 16th addition board and never had a problem for the last 15 years ,In this case That fact that its an RCD socket will help as the only thing that's going to trip out the RCD is The freezer if it developes a fault and there for possible save the life of the person in using it.

not if he falls in it and the lid shuts, knocking him unconscious and unable to get out before freezing to death. :ciappa:

 

[Flanders]

not if he falls in it and the lid shuts, knocking him unconscious and unable to get out before freezing to death. :ciappa:

Sorry I stand correctly I forgot about that regulation:biggrinjester:

 

[sparksburnout]

Sorry I stand correctly I forgot about that regulation:biggrinjester:

whats the correct pose for standing correctly then? Chest out, shoulders back, corrected.

 

[sparky1508]

Not really 1 spur per socket on the Ring Final Circuit (RFC)

Agreed, one spur only per socket and the socket off the FCU is a spur. If you have a double socket on the same wall you might get away with spurring from that to a socket for the freezer the fuse down to 3 amps for your light but even that is another spur off a spur in my opinion.[emoji50]

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[Adam W]

If a large freezer is going on the circuit I'd want to keep it as simple as possible to reduce the likelihood of tripping, not stick a bit of everything on it. Presumably you don't want the freezer defrosting every time a light bulb blows?

 

[sparksburnout]

OMG how to make a mountain out of a molehill or what! You CAN have more than one socket off a FUSED spur, this poor OP must wonder what the hell he has asked here, god knows how some of you guys carry on when you get in front of a customer, it's just a freezer not an aluminium smelter. Just take a feed off the existing FCU and run it to either a socket if there is an RCD covering the circuit or if not into another cable fed FCU so there is no socket involved.

 

[davesparks]

This thread is hilarious!

A little common sense would suggest that spurring off from the socket installed specifically as an appliance supply for the washing machine is not the most sensible option, especially not when the ring final is already local to that point.

Freezers, much to the surprise of some people I think, are not incredibly delicate and fragile appliances. They don't spontaneously trip RCDs for no reason, unless they develop a fault, and the local light blowing a lamp won't be a major issue as that will only happen when someone is there to notice and fix it.




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[davesparks]

Not that I aware of, but will need to check properly.. Would an RCD be requirement/Good idea? I could fit an RCD protected socket in outhouse if required?

Please tell me you are joking? If you don't know this then you are clearly not competent to be doing this job.
You could be placing the poor unsuspecting homeowner's life at risk through your incompetence, please just advise them to get an electrician who won't place their life at risk and then walk away from the job.

Electricity kills within a fraction of a second and you certainly don't get a second chance.


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[sparky1508]

BS 7671 states on page 453 appendix 15. Spur using an FCU connected directly to the ring.
The number of socket outlets supplied from a fused connection unit is dependent upon the load characteristics having taken diversity into account. It also shows conductor size reduced to 1.5mm2. If it's a single socket below the work top and it's going to be a single socket for freezer then it's just the light to add on the end. Just another DP switched FCU down to 3 amps and there you have it.

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[davesparks]

BS 7671 states on page 453 appendix 15. Spur using an FCU connected directly to the ring.
The number of socket outlets supplied from a fused connection unit is dependent upon the load characteristics having taken diversity into account. It also shows conductor size reduced to 1.5mm2. If it's a single socket below the work top and it's going to be a single socket for freezer then it's just the light to add on the end. Just another DP switched FCU down to 3 amps and there you have it.

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Yes, there's no disputing the regulations on this, just the common sense angle. The OP has stated that the existing socket after the sfcu is the supply to the washing machine. So any further sockets added to this will all be switched off whenever the washing machine is switched off, not a sensible design, especially when the ring is obviously also local to connect to.





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[sparksburnout]

All this nonsense is because we are trying to advise a DIYer how to bodge something up. Dave, I wasn't inferring that freezers are likely to trip an RCD, it was the fact that something else on the same RCD protected circuit might and take the freezer with it. I think this just goes to show that the only sensible advice would be for the guy to get a sparky in to do it properly. Incidentally, do any of you run your freezers on a dedicated or non-RCD supply? I do!

 

[Spoon]

do any of you run your freezers on a dedicated or non-RCD supply? I do!

Nope. I just have a 16th CU. 1 RCD, hardly ever trips, unless the daughter spills her drink down the back of something onto a socket...

 

[Flanders]

Yes, there's no disputing the regulations on this, just the common sense angle. The OP has stated that the existing socket after the sfcu is the supply to the washing machine. So any further sockets added to this will all be switched off whenever the washing machine is switched off, not a sensible design, especially when the ring is obviously also local to connect to.







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I agree and its what I said in post #8

 

[Flanders]

All this nonsense is because we are trying to advise a DIYer how to bodge something up. Dave, I wasn't inferring that freezers are likely to trip an RCD, it was the fact that something else on the same RCD protected circuit might and take the freezer with it. I think this just goes to show that the only sensible advice would be for the guy to get a sparky in to do it properly. Incidentally, do any of you run your freezers on a dedicated or non-RCD supply? I do!

No mines on main RCD see Post #17

 

[Pete999]

Please tell me you are joking? If you don't know this then you are clearly not competent to be doing this job.
You could be placing the poor unsuspecting homeowner's life at risk through your incompetence, please just advise them to get an electrician who won't place their life at risk and then walk away from the job.

Electricity kills within a fraction of a second and you certainly don't get a second chance.


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The OP is a DIYer Dave

 

[Midwest]

Perhaps this post should be in the DIY section then? But agree with davesparks, get an electrician in. Never ceases to amaze me the amount of bodges I come across done by weekend warriors, but that's my opinion. As regards freezers on RCD's, never had mine on anything else. If it does knock off the fridge/freezer, I normally notice when I open the fridge door for my bottle of mineral water. If I've been away when it's gone off, I'd claim on my house insurance for all the rib-eye steaks & sides of lamb I normally have jammed in there :cheesy:

 

[sparky1508]

Perhaps this post should be in the DIY section then? But agree with davesparks, get an electrician in. Never ceases to amaze me the amount of bodges I come across done by weekend warriors, but that's my opinion. As regards freezers on RCD's, never had mine on anything else. If it does knock off the fridge/freezer, I normally notice when I open the fridge door for my bottle of mineral water. If I've been away when it's gone off, I'd claim on my house insurance for all the rib-eye steaks & sides of lamb I normally have jammed in there :cheesy:

Apparently some insurance companies say you can't claim on freezer contents if your freezer is on an RCD. Might wanna check that one before putting it on RCD but you could always have dedicated circuit labelled freezer only and then you won't need an RCD.

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[Midwest]

Apparently some insurance companies say you can't claim on freezer contents if your freezer is on an RCD. Might wanna check that one before putting it on RCD but you could always have dedicated circuit labelled freezer only and then you won't need an RCD.

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Think my excess would be more than my pack of beef burgers and couple of bottles of wine currently being super chilled at the moment, so won't lose any sleep over that. Last time I read my T&C's in me house insurance, there was an exclusion for everything if there was an R in the month or hadn't had the coalman walk backwards thru the house on New Years eve!

 

[sparky1508]

I get the jest in your comment but if we are talking a full chest freezer, even without the ribeye and stuff it can amount to alot. I suppose it's a risk that an individual would have to decide on their own but it is still a valid option.

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[Midwest]

I get the jest in your comment.....

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You surprise me, most of my anecdotes seem to fall on deaf ears

 

[sparky1508]

You surprise me, most of my anecdotes seem to fall on deaf ears

[emoji106]

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