Discuss Gender Neutral Confusion.............. in the Electricians Chat - Off Topic Chat area at ElectriciansForums.net
I've thought long and hard about posting this, but since so far it's all men who have commented, I'll throw in this chick's view on the matter and I'm sure I'm going to cop some flack for it because for this particular subject I am completely anti.
For starters, the way to avoid any possible problems (and I think putting this on a CV as opposed to ones biological sex indicates it is an issue for this individual which means at some point in the future it could become an issue for you) is to simply dismiss the CV and file it under B.1.N. I would. I won't even entertain the idea of employing someone for whom this fad is important regardless of qualifications. The legal protection being afforded these individuals is growing and thus it is opening a whole new way in which you could get screwed over as an employer. I certainly wouldn't enquire about it at interview as if they are then unsuccessful, it could be used as leverage against you.
I whole heartedly agree with @Rpa07 and @Vortigern .
There is no doubt this is a trend, nothing more. If you look back on it, it's quite clear it started on the internet (no surprise there, most likely on Tumblr - a site which appears to have great influence over the kids of today), but these days it's being pushed by main stream media, schools and universities and is gaining serious legal traction in various countries. We've already had guidance here telling NHS maternity staff not to refer to expectant mothers as MOTHERS... FFS. Have womb, get pregnant, give birth, are mother... period!
There is no biological basis for it as about 99.7% (or something of that magnitude) of human beings fall into the sex binary of male or female, and for the most part male = penis, female = vagina. The people who don't comply with that are transgendered or intersex (both of which are medical conditions, the sufferers of which deserve our compassion and understanding). But there in lies one of the key issues. The people using this are confusing biological sex with gender identity/personality and seem to be pushing back against being pigeon holed by their sex, which of course isn't an issue these days... being female doesn't mean you stay at home dropping sprogs playing housewife to your hubby (thank god!), but that fact appears lost on a lot of these people.
As I see it there are a few potential reasons why someone may choose to label themselves in this way. 1) Victim status - Labelling yourself as non-binary, is increasingly granting you protection under legislation designed to protect the truly transgendered individuals. Label yourself as non-binary and you can suddenly blame anyone but yourself for things that have gone wrong in your life (not being hired, being fired, making bad decisions). 2) Feeling special - Go look at the on-line profiles of some of these clowns... this is the only thing some of them have to say about themselves... how sad and shallow. 3) Self Acceptance - Remember this started in America, a deeply religious country with some way out there values and pressures regarding gender roles etc. I think it may be a way for kids who don't conform to excuse their lack of conformity. Now I think that's the wrong way to handle it, what should happen is parents should be telling their kids it's OK to be you, but I suspect that doesn't happen.
And to add to the confusion, this also ties up to the transspecies movement and other such BS. For those unfamiliar with that term... today I'm a cat (curiosity is my name as I'm doing an EICR on a small office building), yesterday I was a fish (gliding through my repair jobs like a fish glides through water). Sound stupid? It's a thing!
I've seen conversations start with openings like this "Hi I'm Mike, I identify as moonkin. I'm non-binary and my preferred pronouns are she and her". Is that how you want to be opening conversations? Some parts of the states have legislation that requires you to use Mikes pronouns... even though Mike is 6'4" 21st with a huge great bushy beard. She? Is that the kind of craziness you want?
And lets be clear about this... the agenda at the moment is for gender neutral everything. These labels are self defined, so anyone at any time could say "Hey, I'm female" and waltz into the girls bathrooms in public spaces. Anyone with a young daughter... is that what you want? People being able to self define as something with no medical diagnosis, something which grants them access to somewhere they wouldn't ordinarily be allowed to go. I certainly don't want that.
The funniest thing about this is that they often make statements about how the doctor abused them when they were born by assigning their gender by looking between their legs. As I said above, biological sex... penis = man, vagina = woman. They claim it's abuse because it's dictating their role in society. Thankfully we live in enlightened times... it doesn't matter male/female you can pretty much be and do anything you like, you're in control of what becomes of your life, what's between your legs has very little impact these days.
It should not be pushed as an agenda by the main stream media, it should not be taught in schools (growing up is confusing enough as it is, so lets kids be kids and don't add to their questioning) and it should not be afforded the same legal protection as being transgendered.
And that's my little rant on the subject. I'm sure some of you will think I'm a hate filled witch. Not hate, I'm just tired of society being dismantled piece by piece and this is another example of it. Years ago, you were male/female and straight/gay/bi. 6 possibilities. Why do we need more than that? Anything else is character/personality and should not be labelled because it's usually unique to the individual and should not grant any form of protection/legal status.
Oh oh better add @telectrix to that listHope you get past 'The' Vortigern & Sparkychick
agree 100% with Sparkychick. Alan Turin is not relevant. he was homosexual, which is an actual "condition", and recognised as such. being nether male ot female ( except in extremely rare cases of hermaphrodites) is not possible.
As for employing such a person as in the OP, which staff toilets wolt it use, or would you have to build a gender neutral set of bogs for it?
Me neitheri didn't know what he was referring to
but what would you be discriminating against? the "person" is stated to be neutral. you can't discriminate against something that does not exist.
Discrimination, hmmm a very important critical faculty. It is correct to discriminate in order to make the correct decision. The fact that the state has passed a law not allowing you to does not mean therefore the law is correct and discrimination now becomes a dirty word. It merely means the law is an --- has been said by a then Q.C. I would only add to that -hole.
Just to be clear discrimination as a legal term proscribes how we may judge something. The state and legislature is ultra vires when it tells us what we may or may not like and how we express that like or dislike. It is NOT a function of the state to tell anyone how or what to think, and the people who line up and obey these laws are the orwellian brain dead, politically correct, zombies that really need to wake up.
Hang on a second, why just a person, you have serious issues with the fact that people can't marry what they want.These are not matters of logic, neither are they a fashion statement. Absolutely people should be able to marry the person they fall in love with.
I've thought long and hard about posting this, but since so far it's all men who have commented, I'll throw in this chick's view on the matter and I'm sure I'm going to cop some flack for it because for this particular subject I am completely anti.
For starters, the way to avoid any possible problems (and I think putting this on a CV as opposed to ones biological sex indicates it is an issue for this individual which means at some point in the future it could become an issue for you) is to simply dismiss the CV and file it under B.1.N. I would. I won't even entertain the idea of employing someone for whom this fad is important regardless of qualifications. The legal protection being afforded these individuals is growing and thus it is opening a whole new way in which you could get screwed over as an employer. I certainly wouldn't enquire about it at interview as if they are then unsuccessful, it could be used as leverage against you.
I whole heartedly agree with @Rpa07 and @Vortigern .
There is no doubt this is a trend, nothing more. If you look back on it, it's quite clear it started on the internet (no surprise there, most likely on Tumblr - a site which appears to have great influence over the kids of today), but these days it's being pushed by main stream media, schools and universities and is gaining serious legal traction in various countries. We've already had guidance here telling NHS maternity staff not to refer to expectant mothers as MOTHERS... FFS. Have womb, get pregnant, give birth, are mother... period!
There is no biological basis for it as about 99.7% (or something of that magnitude) of human beings fall into the sex binary of male or female, and for the most part male = penis, female = vagina. The people who don't comply with that are transgendered or intersex (both of which are medical conditions, the sufferers of which deserve our compassion and understanding). But there in lies one of the key issues. The people using this are confusing biological sex with gender identity/personality and seem to be pushing back against being pigeon holed by their sex, which of course isn't an issue these days... being female doesn't mean you stay at home dropping sprogs playing housewife to your hubby (thank god!), but that fact appears lost on a lot of these people.
As I see it there are a few potential reasons why someone may choose to label themselves in this way. 1) Victim status - Labelling yourself as non-binary, is increasingly granting you protection under legislation designed to protect the truly transgendered individuals. Label yourself as non-binary and you can suddenly blame anyone but yourself for things that have gone wrong in your life (not being hired, being fired, making bad decisions). 2) Feeling special - Go look at the on-line profiles of some of these clowns... this is the only thing some of them have to say about themselves... how sad and shallow. 3) Self Acceptance - Remember this started in America, a deeply religious country with some way out there values and pressures regarding gender roles etc. I think it may be a way for kids who don't conform to excuse their lack of conformity. Now I think that's the wrong way to handle it, what should happen is parents should be telling their kids it's OK to be you, but I suspect that doesn't happen.
And to add to the confusion, this also ties up to the transspecies movement and other such BS. For those unfamiliar with that term... today I'm a cat (curiosity is my name as I'm doing an EICR on a small office building), yesterday I was a fish (gliding through my repair jobs like a fish glides through water). Sound stupid? It's a thing!
I've seen conversations start with openings like this "Hi I'm Mike, I identify as moonkin. I'm non-binary and my preferred pronouns are she and her". Is that how you want to be opening conversations? Some parts of the states have legislation that requires you to use Mikes pronouns... even though Mike is 6'4" 21st with a huge great bushy beard. She? Is that the kind of craziness you want?
And lets be clear about this... the agenda at the moment is for gender neutral everything. These labels are self defined, so anyone at any time could say "Hey, I'm female" and waltz into the girls bathrooms in public spaces. Anyone with a young daughter... is that what you want? People being able to self define as something with no medical diagnosis, something which grants them access to somewhere they wouldn't ordinarily be allowed to go. I certainly don't want that.
The funniest thing about this is that they often make statements about how the doctor abused them when they were born by assigning their gender by looking between their legs. As I said above, biological sex... penis = man, vagina = woman. They claim it's abuse because it's dictating their role in society. Thankfully we live in enlightened times... it doesn't matter male/female you can pretty much be and do anything you like, you're in control of what becomes of your life, what's between your legs has very little impact these days.
It should not be pushed as an agenda by the main stream media, it should not be taught in schools (growing up is confusing enough as it is, so lets kids be kids and don't add to their questioning) and it should not be afforded the same legal protection as being transgendered.
And that's my little rant on the subject. I'm sure some of you will think I'm a hate filled witch. Not hate, I'm just tired of society being dismantled piece by piece and this is another example of it. Years ago, you were male/female and straight/gay/bi. 6 possibilities. Why do we need more than that? Anything else is character/personality and should not be labelled because it's usually unique to the individual and should not grant any form of protection/legal status.
Alan Turing was helped by Polish mathematicians who had already broken the code and they taught him how to build the electro mechanical devices, during the war the Enigma codes became more complex and then Turing built his computer, the student learns from his teacher.The human mind is a complex thing. Who can say this persons feelings about themselves, has been influenced by society/media. It just could be the way they feel, who are we to say otherwise. The way we conceive things changes over time, we evolve.
Just over 60 years ago a guy committed suicide after being found guilty of gross indecency in private. Homosexuality was decriminalised some ten years later in the UK, in 1967. Societies attitudes towards homosexuality have change completely in recent years, which was seen as an illness, that could be cured. What should are attitudes to gender neutral peoples be like?
The guy in question, was Alan Turing, attributed with saving millions of lives in WWII and shortening the war. Yet he's sentence for his 'crime' was chemical castration, as 'treatment' for his illness.
Hope you get past 'The' Vortigern & Sparkychick
Hang on a second, why just a person, you have serious issues with the fact that people can't marry what they want.
https://jalopnik.com/man-who-has-had-sex-with-999-cars-will-marry-vw-beetle-1445719610
Hun, what car do you drive...........?I don't have an issue with anyone if they're not adversely affecting me. Live and let live my friend.
Hun, what car do you drive...........?
what's wrong with fat birds? more to get hold of.Jesus like pulling the fat bird on a night out......
Whatever turns you on, I prefer slim birds more room in the bed for me and they don't eat much when you take them out so leaves me more money to spend on cars and Knipex tools.what's wrong with fat birds? more to get hold of.
Alan Turing was helped by Polish mathematicians who had already broken the code and they taught him how to build the electro mechanical devices, during the war the Enigma codes became more complex and then Turing built his computer, the student learns from his teacher.
Mine is a too bitey for that kind of relationship. Just one cutting remark after another. But I do see the attraction ...Who on this thread would marry their Knipex tool set?
Should we assume therefore that all gay people are like this? No. I believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt rather that judging them before I've even met them. And that, I think, is the crux of the matter. Judge everyone on their own merit.
The human mind is a complex thing. Who can say this persons feelings about themselves, has been influenced by society/media. It just could be the way they feel, who are we to say otherwise. The way we conceive things changes over time, we evolve.
Just over 60 years ago a guy committed suicide after being found guilty of gross indecency in private. Homosexuality was decriminalised some ten years later in the UK, in 1967. Societies attitudes towards homosexuality have change completely in recent years, which was seen as an illness, that could be cured. What should are attitudes to gender neutral peoples be like?
As for employing such a person as in the OP, which staff toilets wolt it use, or would you have to build a gender neutral set of bogs for it?
Some are suggesting this person should not be considered for an interview, just because he or she is gender neutral. You can dress that up as much as you want, but that is discrimination.
I suppose that's okay until you suffer at the hands of discrimination.
Being gingered haired and having freckles, doesn't fit snuggle within the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act, but a carrot top would feel a bit pee'd he did not get the job 'cos he's a ginge.
Well said, but as we see again and again its the minority that seems to control the majority.
I don't have an issue with anyone if they're not adversely affecting me. Live and let live my friend.
Absolutely, and I think that's a very important point... being gender neutral is in the mind, it's an expression of character, or personality, of being who you want to be. It's not a characteristic of one's biology like sex or sexuality.
Again, as with sexuality, having ginger hair and/or freckles is biology and I would agree, discriminating on the basis of looks is wrong, except if those looks will be public facing... then I should have the right to choose who will represent my company. My business model might rely on all public facing staff having blonde hair, or I might not want a tattooed youth with 15" wheel rims stuck through his ear lobes to be the first person someone sees when they walk into the reception area of my office. That's my choice, it's my brand... unfortunately if you make that kind of decision, you run the risk of being had for discriminating which is plainly wrong.
QUOTE]
?
Yes, it is, because they are the most vocal and cause the most trouble, and also because anyone that speaks out against their agenda is branded as a hater, sometimes being publicly doxed, abused and shamed for daring to have a different opinion to these people.
It's the same sort of situation that exists in the UK with regards to say the Muslim rape gangs (amongst other things). People dare not speak out because they fear the consequences.
Somebody took the red pill, respect!Well we here in the UK are in the midst of such things as you mention @Marvo. It has been given legal credence and there are moves to remove gender assignment from passports. Clearly people are latching on to this movement of gender disphoria. i.e. being creative regarding ones biological sex. I see that some people describe this as cultural marxism. What underpins society is gender role assignment based on obvious biological facts which in turn form the family unit. Remove this and you undermine some of the most important underpinning tenets of a society. Which is after all is the stated aim of cultural marxism. Most disturbingly when legal acts are passed which ratify and amplify this we can be sure our government has embraced the same aims.
Some people genuinely resent and reject being pigeon holed into such a simple and obvious classification. This is an internal process which allows people to be gender fluid as it is named. And indeed why should anyone be pigeon holed? However it to my mind shows they have bought into a lie, maybe a pretty lie but lie nonetheless. Such mental processes which brook no debate or questioning presage an ominous totalitarianism, the kind of thing I feel quite allergic to.
This flies in the face of what might be called common sense. i.e. if you have a penis you are a male, if you have a vagina you are a female yes? Well...apparently no. So who will you believe the person saying they are neither either or both, or your own eyes. You may be aware of same sex marriage being legalised fairly extensively. Clearly "normal" relations and obvious sexual determinations are being stood on their head and defy logic.
I feel somewhat encouraged that some women now are back-tracking on feminism and deciding maybe being career rich and relationship poor are not good life choices. And that maybe men should be men and women should be women, who knows eh?
I have been most disturbed to find my grandchildren (boys, male)coming home from school talking of wanting to be a female as they have decided that today as a result of classroom teaching. With that and other matters I decided to withdraw them from school and home educate them. While others may debate the above I do not.
I do feel sorry for S.A. if that is looming on your agenda. I suggest as others here have you take vigorous legal advice regarding how you will deal with this as it grows. Not only for applicants but also for people who are employed with you and sufficiently immersed in cultural marxism as to cause you great distress when you say or do the wrong thing. Many have been sacrificed here on the altar of political correctness (read cultural marxism)
The most salient fact in my mind to emerge from discussion is the fact that it has become a potential legal minefield especially for empoyers but also for individuals. This should not be the case as the state has no business in legislating regards how one individual thinks about another. The fact that we discuss this misses the underlying fact that the state has made it dangerous for us to hate or dislike even. That is a very ominous and sinister thought control which should never be accepted. As much as the "useful idiots" say "we are free to love who or what we want", so should it be accepted to hate or dislike as freely.
When the Law of the land requires us to acquiesce to the notion that it is perfectly normal and even desirable for society to be made up of sexually deviant practices, although in principle there may be some merits in that, we have to step back and wonder whether our ministers have lost the plot!
Where we do not accept that notion and voice it, we may be prosecuted and put in to a prison. This may ruin our lives and business and destroy our family, but no matter, as long as the feelings of someone who is offended is protected all is good. Or is it? Sadly there are many "useful idiots" who will support this state of affairs (they hate the haters!) by ostracising and attacking anyone who does not support these abnormalities.
P.S.
deviant
ˈdiːvɪənt/
adjective
adjective: deviant
1.
departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behaviour.
"deviant behaviour"
I am gender neutral so from now on I will use the ladies changing rooms at the gym..........
Just for info, the guy isn't likely to make an interview, there are several better qualified and more experience candidates.
If being gender neutral is in the mind, then there's no difference with that and believing in a God. Yet religion, belief or lack of religion/belief is one of the protected characteristics.
We are fundamentally, look where that got us.We could all be exactly the same
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