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Discuss 10mA RCD for bathroom circuits in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

kingeri

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Arms
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Been to look at a job this morning for a CU change, customer the type who wants to have his say on every tiny detail. He has already bought the CU as well, a Wylex RCBO unit.....

I pointed out that the RCBO ratings he has bought don't align with what I actually need...and that some will need to be swapped. So far, so good.

He then says he wants to include 10mA RCD protection for all circuits in the bathroom. This will be lighting, shower and spa bath pump. I point out that I don't think Wylex do 10mA RCBOs....and if they do why hasn't he bought them instead of 30mA ones...to which he said he why can't I add the 10mA after the RCBOs. I tried to tell him that having two RCDs in series isn't great as they won't discriminate and in this case would actually be pointless. I also said that 30mA protection is the accepted standard for this job. Nevertheless, he still wants it.

I told him I'll be back next week, but he gave me a headache. Just wondered what any of you guys would do in this situation?
 
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O

Octopus

Customers who think they know better AND buy the parts that they think are correct are not worth working for .......... its that simple IMHO.
 

kingeri

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #4
Ha yes that's how I feel TBH. He'd probably be standing over my shoulder the whole time criticising my work anyway.
 

kingeri

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
Apologise, tell him you were mistaken and that you won’t be back next week
Think that might be the way I'll go....
Have you ever had the 10mA thing?? This guy says he once 'had an electric shock off a tap'...hence his paranoia I think.
 
D

Deleted member 26818

Those Layzspa jacuzzis come with an in line 10mA RCD, you can also obtain them as RCD sockets.
I have heard of 10mA RCDs being used for medical and laboratory installations.
 

Pete999

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Arms
Esteemed
Been to look at a job this morning for a CU change, customer the type who wants to have his say on every tiny detail. He has already bought the CU as well, a Wylex RCBO unit.....

I pointed out that the RCBO ratings he has bought don't align with what I actually need...and that some will need to be swapped. So far, so good.

He then says he wants to include 10mA RCD protection for all circuits in the bathroom. This will be lighting, shower and spa bath pump. I point out that I don't think Wylex do 10mA RCBOs....and if they do why hasn't he bought them instead of 30mA ones...to which he said he why can't I add the 10mA after the RCBOs. I tried to tell him that having two RCDs in series isn't great as they won't discriminate and in this case would actually be pointless. I also said that 30mA protection is the accepted standard for this job. Nevertheless, he still wants it.

I told him I'll be back next week, but he gave me a headache. Just wondered what any of you guys would do in this situation?
Your customer will be onto you for every little thing, all OK for call outs bur will become a nuisance to you, if you can put up with that then go ahead, if not and you value your sanity, walk.
 

Risteard

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Arms
Esteemed
Those Layzspa jacuzzis come with an in line 10mA RCD, you can also obtain them as RCD sockets.
I have heard of 10mA RCDs being used for medical and laboratory installations.
Schools used to use them. Certainly not a common device nowadays.
 

kingeri

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
Thanks guys, I think I will give this job a miss. I never heard of 10mA RCD protection in a domestic bathroom, I have only encountered them infrequently in any situation....the chap said he got the idea from a relative who lives in Spain. Maybe they use them over there.
 

kingeri

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
Thanks Murdoch, I had already looked but wasn't inspired by price or condition of most of them. Also, would need a B6, B40 and probably a B6, B10 or B16. Anyhow....I'm not going back so who cares!!
 

Pete999

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Arms
Esteemed
Your customer will be onto you for every little thing, all OK for call outs bur will become a nuisance to you, if you can put up with that then go ahead, if not and you value your sanity, walk.
Sorry to say this Mate "bad idea to agree to let the customer supply parts in the first place"
 

kingeri

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
Sorry to say this Mate "bad idea to agree to let the customer supply parts in the first place"
I never would agree to this unless it was a light fitting or something. He just produced the CU when I got there.
 
T

Toneyz

Price the job as per BS7671 using 30mA slightly higher than you usually do (not too high that you would be ripping him off) and make it clear that it is with 30mA only.
 

richy3333

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Mentor
Arms
Supporter
Esteemed
Hager used to, and I think still do 10mA RCBO’s

Id tell the bloke the truth - that you’re not doing the work coz he’s an arse, otherwise he’ll go through life not knowing it
 

Tony Reidy

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Arms
Been to look at a job this morning for a CU change, customer the type who wants to have his say on every tiny detail. He has already bought the CU as well, a Wylex RCBO unit.....

I pointed out that the RCBO ratings he has bought don't align with what I actually need...and that some will need to be swapped. So far, so good.

He then says he wants to include 10mA RCD protection for all circuits in the bathroom. This will be lighting, shower and spa bath pump. I point out that I don't think Wylex do 10mA RCBOs....and if they do why hasn't he bought them instead of 30mA ones...to which he said he why can't I add the 10mA after the RCBOs. I tried to tell him that having two RCDs in series isn't great as they won't discriminate and in this case would actually be pointless. I also said that 30mA protection is the accepted standard for this job. Nevertheless, he still wants it.

I told him I'll be back next week, but he gave me a headache. Just wondered what any of you guys would do in this situation?
Walk away, customers who think they know better are nothing but trouble
 

PEG

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Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
He sounds like he is on top of his specification...let him crack on. He can use the same methods he used,for the CU,to find the RCD he needs.
He probably will find someone to take on his project,so let them have all the fun and glory;)
 

freddo

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Arms
Supporter
Esteemed
I turned an old Wylex 10mA RCD into an RCD socket by punching a round hole in it and fitting an MK panel socket. I use it a lot for on site appliance repairs where I'm poking inside live appliances. Not as good as, but more practical to carry than a large isolation transformer, and better than nothing.10ma rcd.jpg
 

edexlab

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Arms
Once had a customer who complained of shocks from kitchen sink tap
He'd been getting them for 2 years!

Took 30 mins to find the problem
I was testing for voltage between tap and earth from the cooker outlet
nothing
He said put your hand on it
Nothing
He was insistent so I did it several times and got after 10 mins got a small shock
Tested with meter +120v rising to +200v
( I forget the exact readings)
????
Checked the polarity at incomer
230 to earth nothing between line and neutral
So I rigged up a temporary spike in his garden tested between wire and N terminal and got over 200v

While doing this I noticed the pole transformer with newish cable and the orange sleeve covering on the cable coming to the house
I said is that new ?

He said oh they changed it 2 years ago......
Quick call to WPD they came out to check

The guy tested it and said @#$% some idiots connected the N to a phase

He called a manager who came out and started trying to explain it away as something got broken inside Tx from the wind!
 

edexlab

-
Arms
Once had a customer who complained of shocks from kitchen sink tap
He'd been getting them for 2 years!

Took 30 mins to find the problem
I was testing for voltage between tap and earth from the cooker outlet
nothing
He said put your hand on it
Nothing
He was insistent so I did it several times and got after 10 mins got a small shock
Tested with meter +120v rising to +200v
( I forget the exact readings)
????
Checked the polarity at incomer
230 to earth nothing between line and neutral
So I rigged up a temporary spike in his garden tested between wire and N terminal and got over 200v

While doing this I noticed the pole transformer with newish cable and the orange sleeve covering on the cable coming to the house
I said is that new ?

He said oh they changed it 2 years ago......
Quick call to WPD they came out to check

The guy tested it and said @#$% some idiots connected the N to a phase

He called a manager who came out and started trying to explain it away as something got broken inside Tx from the wind!
 

kingeri

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Arms
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
An update on this one. I rang him on Monday and told him where I stood and that I am happy to do any work he wants doing so long as it is to BS7671, and the 10mA thing ain't happening....and he started crying....actually crying. I asked him what's wrong and he hung up. Odd fella he is.
 

DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
Patron
How odd. To be fair if someone wanted 10mA protection then fair enough, just put a disclaimer about nuisance tripping. Customer happy and job done.
 
B

Bobster

Don't see what the issue is with fitting 10mA protection for the bathroom is?

It's not like it's going to generate enough leakage current to trip as a nuisance. It's only lights, a shower and an extractor. An those will be split between 2 devices.

They're an available product, although not common. I'd have just priced the job, it's going to be more expensive but it's what the customer wants.
 
J

Jjc

Been to look at a job this morning for a CU change, customer the type who wants to have his say on every tiny detail. He has already bought the CU as well, a Wylex RCBO unit.....

I pointed out that the RCBO ratings he has bought don't align with what I actually need...and that some will need to be swapped. So far, so good.

He then says he wants to include 10mA RCD protection for all circuits in the bathroom. This will be lighting, shower and spa bath pump. I point out that I don't think Wylex do 10mA RCBOs....and if they do why hasn't he bought them instead of 30mA ones...to which he said he why can't I add the 10mA after the RCBOs. I tried to tell him that having two RCDs in series isn't great as they won't discriminate and in this case would actually be pointless. I also said that 30mA protection is the accepted standard for this job. Nevertheless, he still wants it.

I told him I'll be back next week, but he gave me a headache. Just wondered what any of you guys would do in this situation?
tell him to get someone else to do it. Don't take ---- from any wise ahole
 
Thanks guys, I think I will give this job a miss. I never heard of 10mA RCD protection in a domestic bathroom, I have only encountered them infrequently in any situation....the chap said he got the idea from a relative who lives in Spain. Maybe they use them over there.
Tell him to buy a house in Spain then
 

DPG

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Arms
Esteemed
Patron
I don't think it's a rule, but it makes sense to explain why you disagree if you do.
 

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