17th Dual RCD Mcb order and have a strange fault Help!! lol

[paul0547]

Right here we go,

This is my first post on here . Installed a Wylex 17th Edition 15 way board at my own house. I put all the power on one side and lighting on the other. I'm not sure if this is how everyone else does it but im new to 17th boards so if you do otherwise please say. So... I turned it on as I normally do trying one Mcb at a time to see if any trip the RCD. All the lighint circuits are fine. But two of the rings trip it on the power side. So I unplug everything on the rings and turn it on. Seemed to be ok. Turned the living room tv on and it tripped. After fafing about all circuits are fine until put under a bit of load. Going around with a power drill any circuit on that RCD trips. The house is a older house and wiring my not be great but it has an extension on the back which I wired properly even that trips it.

Could this be due to having power all on one side and lighting on the other?
I know the neutrals are all in the correct bars.
Faulty RCD or just to much load for one side and needs to be spread over both the rcds?
My first idea around the problem is to upgrade the troubled RDC from 80amp - 30ma to 80amp - 80ma. So basically a less sensitive RCD?

Any Ideas?? Do you think my solution will work?

 

[malcolmsanford]

Paul are you a sparks??

Because I'm sure you have done something that is obvious, but did you test any circuits before you changed the board

 

[needasparks]

This is a wind-up right ?

Please put it back in the box and take it back to the shop, you could then call your inspecting engineer and ask him what he thinks.

 

[Richard Burns]

Certainly looks like a linked/borrowed neutral problem, but what were your IR readings on the ring?
Normally circuits are split across the board upstairs power and downstairs lights and vice versa.

The RCD protection is there to prevent fatalities increasing the tripping current would bring it over the fatal level. RCDs do not come in 80mA, do not try this.

 

[paul0547]

No im not a sparks but I enjoy electrics. I tested them with a continuity tester but I suppose they are not always accurate..

 

[trev]

Paul, since you are not an electrician I'm assuming that you are also not a member of a domestic installer scheme in which case, are you aware that by carrying out this work you have contravened the building regulations and put yourself and others in danger?

 

[malcolmsanford]

He maybe in Scotland Trev,

but I think now the only advice I can give is you need help Paul so post your location and one of the lads will PM you and offer to sort this out for you

 

[paul0547]

OK ill get a sparks around to sort it out.

 

[trev]

He maybe in Scotland Trev,

Of course. Memo to self, engage brain before allowing typing
Cheers Malcolm

 

[IQ Electrical]

Omg wtf lmao.

 

[trev]

Paul, whereabouts are you? There are members of the forum all the way around the country and in Malcolm's and Engineer54's all over the world. I'm sure that one of us would be willing to help you out

 

[richy3333]

Paul, take the advice of help as your and your families safety is paramount

 

[paul0547]

Thanks Richard!!! I found the fault. I was over confident in my own wiring and did not test the ring I added on. Was not getting continuity on the ring. So split the ring in half worked my way back to the problem. Was human error put the load of a spur into the mains side of the spur so it was constantly on. Which was causing the constant tripping. Thanks for the positive helpful comments! Dont worry trev I am going to get in signed of straight away... You live and you learn.....

 

[Mark_Burgess]

It would take one hell of a brave man to sign that off!

 

[paul0547]

There is nothing wrong with it! 25mm tails 16mm earth 10mm to both main gas and water. All rings are correct. Cable sizes are spot on and local means of isolation where needed throughout. Done cross bonding in bathrooms for extra precaution. Labled correctly I could go on... I worked with an electrical company for 6 years. Its just the first cu I have even done... I have not got around to doing the full course yet.

 

[richy3333]

Paul,
One swallow doesn't make a summer and working in an electrical company doesn't make an electrician?

With your opening statement about putting 'all the power on one side and all the lighting on the other' it suggests you are not a qualified spark? Electricity kills mate, please be careful. Presumably you are qualified to the 17th Ed Regs so you can fill in a certificate and that you have fully inspected and tested the work? - cont, IR Ze, Zs, PFC, RCD et al? The issue about the ring seams to indicate you hadn't tested the installation, which you are required to do.

On the basis you are in England or Wales how do you propose getting this signed off under Part P or are you going to pay for LABC to inspect it?

Please get someone qualified in to check the work and do a PIR/EICR for you.

 

[cagedanimal2010]

There is nothing wrong with it! 25mm tails 16mm earth 10mm to both main gas and water. All rings are correct. Cable sizes are spot on and local means of isolation where needed throughout. Done cross bonding in bathrooms for extra precaution. Labled correctly I could go on... I worked with an electrical company for 6 years. Its just the first cu I have even done... I have not got around to doing the full course yet.

just to be pedantic how did you test the rings??

Danny

 

[Octopus]

Omg wtf lmao.

OK maybe I'm having a blonde moment but what is "lmao"??

And back to the OP - an interesting division of circuits - not quite how I'd do it!!

 

[IQ Electrical]

OK maybe I'm having a blonde moment but what is "lmao"??

And back to the OP - an interesting division of circuits - not quite how I'd do it!!

Hi Murdoch,

It was my response to 'testing by drill' and it translates to 'laughing my --- off'

 

[Rockingit]

THIS IS THE REASON that the country at large needs a means of controlling the sale of certain items. Threads like this make it self-evident.

I'm not saying that 'the usual suspects' should stop selling them, just that there needs to be a means of control. Like knives, glue, fireworks........ the list is fairly long.


I was in a wholesaler about an hour ago and a punter came in asking about how to replace a broken 3036 carrier, so they happily ordered him in one of the MCB converters....didn't ask him what rating, didn't tell him that you need to take the cover off the board (normally) to fit the receiver....all they wanted was the sale. And that was a wholesaler. Imagine what the pimple face youths in the orange shed do.

 

[trev]

THIS IS THE REASON that the country at large needs a means of controlling the sale of certain items. Threads like this make it self-evident.

I'm not saying that 'the usual suspects' should stop selling them, just that there needs to be a means of control. Like knives, glue, fireworks........ the list is fairly long.


I was in a wholesaler about an hour ago and a punter came in asking about how to replace a broken 3036 carrier, so they happily ordered him in one of the MCB converters....didn't ask him what rating, didn't tell him that you need to take the cover off the board (normally) to fit the receiver....all they wanted was the sale. And that was a wholesaler. Imagine what the pimple face youths in the orange shed do.

I totally agree with you mate but can you imagine businesses like the orange shed allowing Cameron to legislate about what building products they can and cannot sell. They would argue that it would be an unfair restraint of trade as everyone knows the dangers involved and surely must be consulting qualified people to fit this stuff (Yeah right, just like Joe Public can't buy a full heating system from his saturday morning paper)
Plus, if they can't police the existing legislation like the building regs how the hell are they going to police this?

 

[Octopus]

When I go to Sainsburys to buy razor blades I have to be "checked" for suitability for purchase!!

 

[Rockingit]

"Everyone knows the dangers involved"...... so, we're now all Doctors because we understand the risks when we buy tobacco, social workers when we buy alcohol, chemists when we buy fireworks........

I think it fairly likely that the overall turn-over that these retailers make from the items under discussion would pale into insignificance when faced with a visit from trading standards.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT I LIKE THIS - just that I think sometimes the public does need protecting from itself, as demonstrated by things like age restrictive sales, licensed sales.....hey - we can't even buy a 100W BC anymore - how hard can it be??

 

[IQ Electrical]

I totally agree with you mate but can you imagine businesses like the orange shed allowing Cameron to legislate about what building products they can and cannot sell. They would argue that it would be an unfair restraint of trade as everyone knows the dangers involved and surely must be consulting qualified people to fit this stuff (Yeah right, just like Joe Public can't buy a full heating system from his saturday morning paper)
Plus, if they can't police the existing legislation like the building regs how the hell are they going to police this?

Absolutely, this is all good in theory but now, when even supermarkets are selling cable and accessories, it would be impossible to get this through Parliament and it would never survive the challenges of restricted trade through our great Euro friends!

 

[trev]

Once again, Murdoch I agree with the point you're making but the sheds affect all trades. Joiners could argue that Mr Punter buying some 3x2 could be dangerous as he may not know how to adequately fix it, plasterers could argue that his house may not be ventilated properly so the plaster dust could give him silicosis, brickies could argue that his wall could fall on top of passers by.
I know that our trade is a good bit more dangerous than most but the sheds and wholesalers are not going to allow any legislation preventing them from making a quid. I appreciate that they all have signs up saying they'll check peoples age for certain items but how many 16 year olds do you think have some sort of fake ID so they can get into bars.

 

[Rockingit]

Well clearly it's a contested point, and with good reason. It will sadly probably take some high-profile tradgedy and a media campaign in the future to effect change.

Anyhow, I think we've suitably hi-jacked the (now hopefully chided) OP's thread and demonstrated that electrics are not a plug and play system. They kill people.