Amendment 3. Non combustible CU

[Eddiesparks]

Am I the only one confused as to why the CU is meant to be metal but the switchgear is all still plastic?! I mean what's the point??!!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Am I the only one confused as to why the CU is meant to be metal but the switchgear is all still plastic?! I mean what's the point??!!

The intent of Regulation 421.1.201 is considered to be, as far as is reasonably practicable, to contain any fire within the enclosure or cabinet and to minimise the escape of flames. That's why you also have a metal flap covering the MCB's, etc.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Am I the only one confused as to why the CU is meant to be metal but the switchgear is all still plastic?! I mean what's the point??!!

Eddie this topic has been done to death on here for last couple of months! Do a quick search mate.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Eddie this topic has been done to death on here for last couple of months! Do a quick search mate.

I have just noticed your signature line haha

 

[Eddiesparks]

Sorry. Ignore me...!

 

[NDG Elecs]

I have just noticed your signature line haha

Ironically, I don't mind the metal boards at all. Think I possibly prefer them to insulated boards mate, but it is early days I guess..!

 

[NDG Elecs]

Sorry. Ignore me...!

Not at all mate! There has been some lengthy posts on it all though!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Put a wylex one in the other day.....probably a good thing it's metal clad after all the product recalls wylex have had over the years lol.

 

[NDG Elecs]

Not seen the Wylex one before. That flap could have been designed to look a lil nicer I think. But, haha, yep maybe non combustible is a good idea for Electrium brands!

 

[drzsta]

The boards don't look too bad until you have to plaster the front of it with multiple stickers of varying colours and sizes. Looks crap afterwards.

 

[baldsparkies]

Yes this has indeed been done to the death, however for the avoidance of doubt for a consumer unit to be compliant with AMD 3 the enclosure does NOT have to be steel or metal simply "made of material that does not burn if exposed to fire"

 

[golfpaul]

Yes this has indeed been done to the death, however for the avoidance of doubt for a consumer unit to be compliant with AMD 3 the enclosure does NOT have to be steel or metal simply "made of material that does not burn if exposed to fire"

Can o' worms!

 

[Eddiesparks]

I think they should start making them out of asbestos

 

[Leesparkykent]

Can o' worms!

here you go lol.

 

[Dave OCD]

Put a wylex one in the other day.....probably a good thing it's metal clad after all the product recalls wylex have had over the years lol.

Did you lose your level that day Lee ?:tongue3:

 

[Eddiesparks]

Did you lose your level that day Lee ?:tongue3:

Yeah I was gonna say that but I think it's a trick of perspective on the photo[emoji1] [emoji3]

 

[Leesparkykent]

Did you lose your level that day Lee ?:tongue3:

Haha, I thought some one would say that lol.....I can assure you it's level it's the camera angle :wink5:

 

[Dave OCD]

I'm sure it's spot on in reality Lee, sorry mate I couldn't resist.

 

[matthunt]

Put a wylex one in the other day.....probably a good thing it's metal clad after all the product recalls wylex have had over the years lol.

Hi Lee, did the lid have a latch or is it just gravity that holds the lid in place?

 

[Leesparkykent]

This is the rest of the house. Inside snaps are of the show home. All 9 houses are the same and are up for 3.3 million each!

Edit: excuse the fingers in one of the shots.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi Lee, did the lid have a latch or is it just gravity that holds the lid in place?

Just hinged at the top mate. They are designed to stay closed because of the intention of the new reg so it just drops shut.

 

[matthunt]

Apparently all isolators need to be metal as well as CUs, I asked the IET the other day over PV rotary isolators, they confirmed this was the case in writing

 

[Leesparkykent]

Apparently all isolators need to be metal as well as CUs, I asked the IET the other day over PV rotary isolators, they confirmed this was the case in writing

Some one was saying this the other day on here. NICEIC web seminar and what you have said is what they have said also. Personally I don't agree with it but who am I to argue.......

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...20-domestic-installs-meta-cus-also-metal.html

 

[Dave OCD]

This is the rest of the house. Inside snaps are of the show home. All 9 houses are the same and are up for 3.3 million each!

Edit: excuse the fingers in one of the shots.

Lovely, I'll take two please. Those houses look like a lot of work though Lee !

 

[Leesparkykent]

Lovely, I'll take two please. Those houses look like a lot of work though Lee !

Yeah they are mate. When I'm next down there I'll take some snaps of the mains room and post them up. They have almost everything you can think off, lutron, CCTV, burglar alarms, fire alarm, AC, music systems, mood lighting, electric gates, PV, solar thermal, the list goes on lol. The lutron kit in each wasn't far off 17 grand.

 

[Eddiesparks]

Most switchfuse rec isolators are metalclad but does it mean we have to record a c3 for a plastic 60a switchfuse.

 

[Spoon]

I think that the amendment doesn't go far enough. I think it should state the all CU be made from 'depleted uranium mesh-reinforced composite armour[SUP][/SUP].' See, problem solved.... Everyone knows where they stand now...

 

[nickblake]

Consumer Unit Mythbuster

From 1st January, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies installed in domestic premises must either have their enclosure constructed from non-combustible material or be housed in an enclosure or cabinet constructed from such material. Although this is the full extent of the changes in relation to consumer units introduced by regulation 421.1.201 of AMD 3 of BS 7671, there has been much misguided advice circulated suggesting that other measures to limit fire spread are required.
When Amendment 3 of BS 7671: 2008 was published in January of this year it included the following new requirement relating to the consumer units installed in domestic premises:
421.1.201 Within domestic (household) premises, consumer units and similar switchgear assemblies shall comply with BS EN 61439-3 and shall:
(i) have their enclosure manufactured from non-combustible material, or
(ii) be enclosed in a cabinet or enclosure constructed of non-combustible material and complying with Regulation 132.12.
NOTE 1: Ferrous metal, e.g. steel, is deemed to be an example of a non-combustible material.
NOTE 2: The implementation date for this regulation is the 1st January 2016. This does not preclude compliance with this regulation prior to that date.
As can be seen, this requirement only contains a requirement for the consumer unit or similar switchgear assembly, or other enclosure surrounding it, to be constructed of a non-combustible material such as steel. Yet somehow so much else has been spuriously attributed to this regulation in terms of what an installer must do in order to be compliant. So let’s take a look at a number of frequently occurring questions relating to AMD 3 consumer unit requirements:
Is it necessary to use cable glands made from metal or intumescent sealing material for cable entries?
No, the testing carried out on metal-cased consumer units has clearly shown that aside from normal good working practices such as minimising the size of a cable entry no special glands or fire stopping of cable entries is required. In any case, the requirements of regulation group 416.2 for barriers or enclosures must be met and manufacturers’ instructions, if any, should be taken into consideration.
Time elapse video footage of comparison testing conducted on an all-insulated and a metal-cased consumer unit by one manufacturer can be seen here
What does the phrase ‘similar switchgear’ in regulation 421.1.201 mean?
This refers to any items of switchgear performing a similar function to a consumer unit for the control and distribution of electricity within the domestic (household) premises. Examples include: One-way consumer units, standalone RCD enclosures and Photo-Voltaic combiner boxes.
The logic behind this is that such items should be of equivalent non-combustible construction in order for the intended requirement to be effective in terms of minimising the spread of fire originating from such equipment.
So can an insulated consumer unit or similar switchgear assembly be installed in a detached outbuilding of a domestic (household) premises?
Yes, subject to such construction being suitable for ambient environmental conditions such as:

• likelihood of mechanical damage,
• use of outbuilding for storage of flammable materials such as paint and thinners, or
• presence of a corrosive atmosphere, such as that found in a swimming pool pump room.

However, consideration must be given to the relative proximity of the outbuilding to the dwelling with respect to the possibility of fire-spread from one structure to the other.
Is it dangerous to install a metal-cased consumer unit in an installation forming part of a TT system?
No, not if good workmanship is exercised at the point at which the meter tails enter the consumer unit and the conductors are terminated correctly in the first piece of switchgear.
Care must be taken to ensure that the sheathing and insulation of the tails is not compromised and measures such as the use of stuffing glands or cable clamping arrangement should be employed to prevent the likelihood of cable movement and subsequent mechanical damage caused by contact with the enclosure that this may allow. Such clamping will also relieve strain on terminations.
In order to prevent the occurrence of unwanted electromagnetic effects, all associated line and neutral conductors must enter the metallic enclosure via the same single aperture, whether a single hole or a series of interlinked holes linked by slotting.
What classification code would be appropriate where, post January 2016, an insulated consumer unit is encountered in a domestic premises?
If the consumer unit is located under wooden staircase or within a sole route of escape from the premises, a code C3 classification (meaning that improvement is recommended) would be appropriate.
If located elsewhere, this might be worthy of not, but it would not be necessary to record this on the condition report.
If, wherever the consumer unit is located, unsatisfactory connections are found during inspection, this would warrant a code C2 classification, meaning that this is potentially dangerous and that the overall condition of the installation is unsatisfactory recorded) Further information on Classification codes for periodic reporting is given in Electrical Safety First’s Best Practice Guide 4 which, like all other BPGs, can be downloaded free of charge from the Electrical Safety First website
Further guidance on Fire safety and consumer units has been published by the British Electrotechnical and Allied Manufacturers’ Association (BEAMA)
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• Consumer Unit Mythbuster (104.00 KB)

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thought this may be intresting from electrical safety first

 

[Hellmooth]

Nice Lee, have you done these from scratch?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Nice Lee, have you done these from scratch?

I've done the last 4 from scratch. Original contractor got the boot.

 

[Hellmooth]

How long has your work taken per house and how many guys? Just out of curiosity!

What at happened with the original contractor?

 

[Leesparkykent]

How long has your work taken per house and how many guys? Just out of curiosity!

What at happened with the original contractor?

About 5weeks from 1st fix to commissioning for two men. Then an extra pair of hands for the odd few days when pulling the armoured cables in and cutting the down lights outs. Their work was gash for a 3.3mil new build and they kept on leaving their apprentices on site without supervision to crack on. The snagging list from their work in 1 of the houses was four A4 pages long lol.

 

[Midwest]

The boards don't look too bad until you have to plaster the front of it with multiple stickers of varying colours and sizes. Looks crap afterwards.

You can discover them, even of the inside of the new metal flap!

 

[Hellmooth]

About 5weeks from 1st fix to commissioning for two men. Then an extra pair of hands for the odd few days when pulling the armoured cables in and cutting the down lights outs. Their work was gash for a 3.3mil new build and they kept on leaving their apprentices on site without supervision to crack on. The snagging list from their work in 1 of the houses was four A4 pages long lol.

Good stuff, how did you manage to price it, was it a one off price for each house and was your estimating accurate? Never priced/done a large domestic install so sorry for the 3rd degree lol!

 

[Midwest]

You can discover them, even of the inside of the new metal flap!

Sorry meant 'hide' them!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Good stuff, how did you manage to price it, was it a one off price for each house and was your estimating accurate? Never priced/done a large domestic install so sorry for the 3rd degree lol!

Lol, Gave the drawings/spec to my wholesaler to price the material and then price per point. Bigger stuff like the mains rooms, fire alarms, pv, lutron, etc I worked out however many days plus mark up on the whole lot. I have a QS that I use for bigger jobs and compare figures with my own. I would say the estimating was pretty much bang on.

If you ever fancy a trip down to the south east Hellmooth on a working Holiday you can come work with me lol.

 

[Hellmooth]

Excellent, that'll do with the questioning for now, away and grab a coffee sir kidding lol, would have been a good gig for the gate company as well, wouldn't mind that kind of work myself!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Excellent, that'll do with the questioning for now, away and grab a coffee sir kidding lol, would have been a good gig for the gate company as well, wouldn't mind that kind of work myself!

Lol. You can come do them next time?

 

[Hellmooth]

Do you have any pics of the gates etc, love to see that kind of stuff!

 

[Hellmooth]

Wouldn't mind a trip down your way actually, working holiday

 

[Leesparkykent]

Do you have any pics of the gates etc, love to see that kind of stuff!

I will take some when next on site. I've got another house I'm doing and I've had all the gates made up by a architectural metal worker/welder....cost a bomb.

 

[Hellmooth]

If work falls through anytime soon I'll take the business trip down south mate Love any experience that differs from my day to day work!

I concentrate as much on access control as possible as I find the work more satisfying! I also use a local fabricator for making my gates, I used to work for a guy that done it all, he was a fabricator/welder to trade so made the gates in house, I was a spark and fell into the work through a mutual friend, loved it! He was a charlatan though so parted ways after so long, I picked up a lot of work from ex (unhappy) customers of his so it worked out fine! I fit a lot of traffic barriers as well so just buy straight from suppliers!

Do you install the gates as well then?

 

[Leesparkykent]

If work falls through anytime soon I'll take the business trip down south mate Love any experience that differs from my day to day work!

I concentrate as much on access control as possible as I find the work more satisfying! I also use a local fabricator for making my gates, I used to work for a guy that done it all, he was a fabricator/welder to trade so made the gates in house, I was a spark and fell into the work through a mutual friend, loved it! He was a charlatan though so parted ways after so long, I picked up a lot of work from ex (unhappy) customers of his so it worked out fine! I fit a lot of traffic barriers as well so just buy straight from suppliers!

Do you install the gates as well then?

I have done but prefer to leave it up to someone who's knows it inside out :wink_smile:

 

[Hellmooth]

Well wth your knowledge and in depth working practices I'm sure it's a walk in the park lol!

 

[Leesparkykent]

Well wth your knowledge and in depth working practices I'm sure it's a walk in the park lol!

I know my limitations though... Some things are best left to the experts lol.

 

[Hellmooth]

Well like our wonderful electrical trade, there is plenty Electrical Trainee's in the gate automation trade! My ex work colleague was a welder come gate 'engineer', would attempt to do it all himself, was funny when I used to try and explain how relays and gate control systems worked, couldn't even grasp a normally open or closed contact, used to look right through me then have a laugh with the other welders that I was talking Swahili :stuart:

 

[Leesparkykent]

Well like our wonderful electrical trade, there is plenty Electrical Trainee's in the gate automation trade! My ex work colleague was a welder come gate 'engineer', would attempt to do it all himself, was funny when I used to try and explain how relays and gate control systems worked, couldn't even grasp a normally open or closed contact, used to look right through me then have a laugh with the other welders that I was talking Swahili :stuart:

Haha sounds like a bit of numpty lol.

 

[Hellmooth]

Yip but numptys who can sell sand to the Arabs will always prosper, liquidate a few companies in the process but still manage to get good work in, a good website and friendly manner go a long way........

 

[Leesparkykent]

Yip but numptys who can sell sand to the Arabs will always prosper, liquidate a few companies in the process but still manage to get good work in, a good website and friendly manner go a long way........

There is sparks round my way who is exactly the same. I've worked with him on a few sites when we both just come out of our time and TBF I wouldn't let him put a plug top on lol. But now has 3 brand new vans on the road, a few house and an AMG merc. He always did have the gift of the gab...

 

[Hellmooth]

Yeah this is it Lee, just a natural at pulling the wool over unsuspecting customers, don't get me wrong he does produce some nice gates, but nothing is certified or doesn't follow any safety standards etc, the only other guy he had doing electrical work, was an alarm installer who didn't want to touch any low voltage stuff! Crazy but still got a lovely house and the vans to show!