EICR query

[Zkra233]

Hi all, really sorry if this question appears silly! We are in the process of buying a property, but have yet to exchange contracts. The property had an extension done, which was issued with a completion certificate. However, it appears the electrics were not signed off due to a number of outstanding issues. Building control asked that a EICR be done, which was signed off as unsatisfactory. There were 6 code 2s. Does it seem odd a completion certificate would be issued if the EICR was unsatisfactory?

 

[Baddegg]

Sounds like building control have done they final inspection and cleared all building works but have never received an EIC (electrical installation certificate) for the electrical works...

 

[multimick]

hi firstly building control and electrics do not go well together. not sure whether you mean the EICR was done after the completion cert or before . However my advice would be to get the code 2,s done before completion or maybe ask for monetary recompense
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[Zkra233]

hi firstly building control and electrics do not go well together. not sure whether you mean the EICR was done after the completion cert or before . However my advice would be to get the code 2,s done before completion or maybe ask for monetary recompense
[automerge]1580164165[/automerge]
hi firstly building control and electrics do not go well together. not sure whether you mean the EICR was done after the completion cert or before . However my advice would be to get the code 2,s done before completion or maybe ask for monetary recompense

Thank you for replying! The EICR was done before the completion certificate was issued. It seems the completion certificate was issued because the electrics didn’t pose a risk to life. I’m just surprised the completion cert would be issued after a unsatisfactory EICR

 

[multimick]

c2 codes are potentially dangerous and urgent action is required to fix these.in my opinion the emphasis is on potentially dangerous

 

[Zkra233]

c2 codes are potentially dangerous and urgent action is required to fix these.in my opinion the emphasis is on potentially dangerous

Thanks. So I wouldn’t be unreasonable saying these C2 issues need to be fixed ASAP?

 

[multimick]

not unreasonable at all.potentially dangerous could be fatal.

 

[Zkra233]

not unreasonable at all.potentially dangerous could be fatal.

Thanks for your view on this, it really helps. Was just so surprised it got completion cert when the EICR was unsatisfactory. Just didn’t make sense!

 

[mattg4321]

The main reason an EICR is issued against a recent extension is because whoever did the electrical work isn’t an electrician, hence cannot certify it. This is backed up by the C2’s found in the report.

It will likely have been diyed or the builder did the electrical work. I’d be looking for money off personally, but that of course depends on how much you want the property and your negotiating position.

 

[Zkra233]

The main reason an EICR is issued against a recent extension is because whoever did the electrical work isn’t an electrician, hence cannot certify it. This is backed up by the C2’s found in the report.

It will likely have been diyed or the builder did the electrical work. I’d be looking for money off personally, but that of course depends on how much you want the property and your negotiating position.

Thanks for explaining. To someone like me, the whole building control / completion sign off is a minefield. I was just amazed building control would issue a completion certificate when the EICR had code 2s.

 

[Zerax]

Thanks for explaining. To someone like me, the whole building control / completion sign off is a minefield. I was just amazed building control would issue a completion certificate when the EICR had code 2s.

Me thinks you might have the wrong impression of building control... Next you'll be telling us that the role of the police is to uphold the law !!

 

[davesparks]

Sadly building control will not have read the EICR, or even understand how to interpret it if they did. They generally see it as the same thing as an EIC where the fact it has been issued means it has been certified as compliant.

I would imagine you could stir things up at building control by enquiring as to why they issued a completion certificate for a non-compliant installation after receiving the EICR.
Personally, and I'm sure others would agree, I think it would be a very good thing if you pressed this issue as far as possible, far too many bad installations get past building control and this needs to be brought to their attention.

As for your particular situation I would be very wary of the property, if a new installation has C2 issues in it then it is likely to have a whole host of other problems which won't/can't be seen on an EICR.

An EICR shouldn't be used to certify compliance of any new installation because you simply cannot see enough of the installation to assess it after it has been completed. An EICR is intended to check the condition of an existing installation and identify any damage, deterioration or improvements which can be made due to changes in the regulations/technology/our understanding of how to best make an installation safe.

 

[Zkra233]

Sadly building control will not have read the EICR, or even understand how to interpret it if they did. They generally see it as the same thing as an EIC where the fact it has been issued means it has been certified as compliant.

I would imagine you could stir things up at building control by enquiring as to why they issued a completion certificate for a non-compliant installation after receiving the EICR.
Personally, and I'm sure others would agree, I think it would be a very good thing if you pressed this issue as far as possible, far too many bad installations get past building control and this needs to be brought to their attention.

As for your particular situation I would be very wary of the property, if a new installation has C2 issues in it then it is likely to have a whole host of other problems which won't/can't be seen on an EICR.

An EICR shouldn't be used to certify compliance of any new installation because you simply cannot see enough of the installation to assess it after it has been completed. An EICR is intended to check the condition of an existing installation and identify any damage, deterioration or improvements which can be made due to changes in the regulations/technology/our understanding of how to best make an installation safe.

that's really helpful - thank you!

 

[Andy78]

If I was about to buy this house I would like a full electrical inspection of the property with special attention to the previous paperwork and the extension.
Honestly though, if C2 issues were found on new work I'd want all that work removing and replacing as you can't see what may be buried in the building fabric and it speaks volumes about the standard of the installer.
At least get the inspection done before purchase and maybe remedial work too or negotiate money off to cover it.

It was most likely not an electrician that installed it. Extension builders frequently do it themselves, hence no original cert. BC then got narked that no cert was available to asked for an EICR. Heaven knows how it then got signed off with C2 issues apparent. Maybe the BC officer and builder play golf.

 

[Zkra233]

If I was about to buy this house I would like a full electrical inspection of the property with special attention to the previous paperwork and the extension.
Honestly though, if C2 issues were found on new work I'd want all that work removing and replacing as you can't see what may be buried in the building fabric and it speaks volumes about the standard of the installer.
At least get the inspection done before purchase and maybe remedial work too or negotiate money off to cover it.

It was most likely not an electrician that installed it. Extension builders frequently do it themselves, hence no original cert. BC then got narked that no cert was available to asked for an EICR. Heaven knows how it then got signed off with C2 issues apparent. Maybe the BC officer and builder play golf.

Firstly, thanks so much to everyone for your help. It really is useful. I was probably a little mis-leading in my earlier responses. The C2 concerns relate to the existing electrics, rather than the electrics installed in the new extension. That said, prior to the EICR being done, there were no EICs of any kind for any of the electrical work done at the property and there are no EICs for the electrical work done in the new extension either. It seems the seller's Dad did all the work. He was a retired electrician, but was not NICEIC registered hence no self certification. The sellers view is that as the new extension got a completion certificate, there is no need to worry!

 

[Andy78]

Firstly, thanks so much to everyone for your help. It really is useful. I was probably a little mis-leading in my earlier responses. The C2 concerns relate to the existing electrics, rather than the electrics installed in the new extension. That said, prior to the EICR being done, there were no EICs of any kind for any of the electrical work done at the property and there are no EICs for the electrical work done in the new extension either. It seems the seller's Dad did all the work. He was a retired electrician, but was not NICEIC registered hence no self certification. The sellers view is that as the new extension got a completion certificate, there is no need to worry!

Ah, that's a little less worrying then I suppose. I would still go for an up to date inspection of the property prior to purchase just because a previous one highlighted potential dangers and there does not appear to be records of them being rectified. Some C2 issues can be a cheap simple fix and some could indicate the need for more extensive work.

 

[Zkra233]

Ah, that's a little less worrying then I suppose. I would still go for an up to date inspection of the property prior to purchase just because a previous one highlighted potential dangers and there does not appear to be records of them being rectified. Some C2 issues can be a cheap simple fix and some could indicate the need for more extensive work.

Thanks Andy. As you say, some of the C2 issues appear minor, others are more serious (EICR says 'no verification of the earthing arrangement for this property can be made'). We know full well these issues haven't been rectified, and it was only after asking many times that they actually sent the EICR to us. So we are trying to get the seller to resolve the C2 issues prior to exchange, or to offer money off the price. I'm probably over reacting, but I don't want 2 your children living in a house deemed to have 'unsatisfactory' electrics!

 

[Andy78]

The earthing issue is very fundamental and may have to be sorted out by the DNO. Our DNO do this sort of work for free within a two week time frame though.

 

[Zkra233]

The earthing issue is very fundamental and may have to be sorted out by the DNO. Our DNO do this sort of work for free within a two week time frame though.

Thanks An
dy - appreciate your guidance on this.

 

[Landy1]

What you have got to understand is that all electricians are giving C2's to try and get the work to fix it when the installations are perfectly safe. It's a disgraceful scam orchestrated by the government and electrical governing bodies.