Employment Contracts

[JL_Electrical]

I am an NICEIC approved contractor. I've been trading for four years doing mainly domestic and bits of commercial here and there. I have picked up a lot more work in the past two years, sub contracting in schools etc. I've previously used labour on a "favour" basis, ie I owe my friends a day if they do a day for me etc. I am CIS registered and pay subby's via this route, however I wish to take on an apprentice. I have a lad who has just completed his second year and used to work for a friend of mine. He has completed a trial and is definately worth having. I can't guarantee him work until he comes out of his time, although things are relatively good at the moment. How can I go about employing him, but not having to pay him when there's no work or all the other BS that comes with it! I want to do this fairly and legally for both parties. I could always ask him to get a UTR but it's a bit of a ball ache for £50.00 a day!

 

[telectrix]

you could employ him PAYE on the understanding that you pay him only for hours worked. e.g. 4 days 1 week, 5 days another etc.

 

[stuban]

Hi

I went through the same thing a few months ago. Didn't want to over stretch ourselves and wanted to at least be able to afford our lad if we had no work.

For him to qualify as an apprentice he needs a contract of employment for 16 hours a week plus the company has to pay for his day at college.

We set him up on a contract for the absolute minimum - 24 hours a week at minimum wage, pay him standard hourly rate for overtime up to 40 hours and then if we have a quiet time we can find at least enough work to cover his wages. If we're busy he's on a bonus scheme.

I know it sounds mean but it does cover his backside as well as ours. We can almost guarantee him finishing his apprenticeship even if we have a quiet patch.

Also bear in mind that because he needs to be an employee he'll need to have paid leave on a pro rata basis. Our lad(on a contract of 3 days a week) gets about 12 days a year paid leave.

Hope this helps.
Stu..

 

[stuban]

I forgot to mention that you'll probably have to add employees liability insurance, cover the costs of his PPE and make sure all you first aid courses are up to date.

At least in our case the college wouldn't put him on the course until all this was in place

Stu..

 

[JL_Electrical]

Cheers for the replies. I've already added employers liability to my policy. I like the sound of your contract Stuban. How did you go about setting this up? Does it create much paperwork for you? Can my accountant set all this up for me, or am I require to phone up HMRC and register as an employer? Sorry for all the questions but I really am clueless.

Also because your apprentice is contracted for 24 hrs a week, if the S*** hits the fan, are you within your rights to say "look their really is no work at the minute, unfortunately I'll have to let you go and we can review this in a month or so if the work picks up?"

 

[fuzzydunlop]

Cheers for the replies. I've already added employers liability to my policy. I like the sound of your contract Stuban. How did you go about setting this up? Does it create much paperwork for you? Can my accountant set all this up for me, or am I require to phone up HMRC and register as an employer? Sorry for all the questions but I really am clueless.

Also because your apprentice is contracted for 24 hrs a week, if the S*** hits the fan, are you within your rights to say "look their really is no work at the minute, unfortunately I'll have to let you go and we can review this in a month or so if the work picks up?"

Within a year you can pretty much dispose of him as you want (for want of a better term) - Up to two years it's relatively simple, after that it gets trickier but not so if there's no work

 

[stuban]

I'll happily send you a template of his contract if it helps.

You will have to have your accountant set up and calculate the PAYE probably. Fortunately I'm married to my accountant so we sort the paperwork out between us but you will certainly need to sort out his timesheets and it'll probably be an overhead because of the extra calcs your accountant needs to do for his PAYE.

Other than that so far there's not been much extra paperwork

Certainly from our point of view the college wanted a weekly commitment so standing him down for a week was not an option. Have a search for apprentices contract rights - its a bit scary from an employers point of view if things go wrong...

We regularly pay him the minimum so that there really should be enough to top up wages as a bonus or to have a bit of a slush fund to pay him the three days if you're out of work. It is a commitment on your part because of the apprenticeship contract rights.

I was completely up front with our lad and he appreciated the fact that his apprenticeship was worth a bit of hardship now and then

Stu..

 

[mogga]

in these times it must be realy difficult for small firms who want to take on a boy and train them but possibly havent got the constant work load needed Also the variety of work needed to train an apprentice to their full potential

It might be an idea to speak with other small contractors around you and maybe take on a couple of boys between you on a sort of "bank" basis if you get my drift ie YOU employhim but if your slack then you call Joe up the rd n he may have need and work for a couple of days Rresult a well rounded apprentice who can work with different people and happy employer

Iv allways thought that the JIB/SJIB should be responsilbe for taking on apprentices and firms trained them on a rolling 3 months ie 3 months with Joe smith 3 months with fred bloggs as some apprentices only seem to do tubing / others TWE ect

 

[JL_Electrical]

Stu, that would be great if you could send me a template of that contract mate. Can you do it as a PM, or do you want my email?

With regards to scope of work for apprentices, my company does cover a fairly wide scope fortunately, so don't think there's too much of an issue there. My work is roughly 50% sub-contract commercial, 20 % maintenance customers (haulauge depots etc) and about 30% private domestic, small builders etc

 

[alarm man]

Hi

I went through the same thing a few months ago. Didn't want to over stretch ourselves and wanted to at least be able to afford our lad if we had no work.

For him to qualify as an apprentice he needs a contract of employment for 16 hours a week plus the company has to pay for his day at college.

We set him up on a contract for the absolute minimum - 24 hours a week at minimum wage, pay him standard hourly rate for overtime up to 40 hours and then if we have a quiet time we can find at least enough work to cover his wages. If we're busy he's on a bonus scheme.

I know it sounds mean but it does cover his backside as well as ours. We can almost guarantee him finishing his apprenticeship even if we have a quiet patch.

Also bear in mind that because he needs to be an employee he'll need to have paid leave on a pro rata basis. Our lad(on a contract of 3 days a week) gets about 12 days a year paid leave.

Hope this helps.
Stu..

i dont think its mean,in fact i think what your doing is class man,shame there isnt more small companies out there doing it your way,im sure the lad prefers that than getting shafted by an agency and paying to get get his wages,no holidays etc...i again doth my cap..