J

judgeelectrical

What do you guys think out there? in my opinion the EPC level of D and the 21p Per KW hoour are bang on. Prices are falling fast on gear and i can really make this work, even starting to feel a bit more confident on spending more money on advirtizing/vans. I just hope the Goverment doesnt mess with everything again at the end of June.

Dont know why , but feeling a bit more positive (untill my first audit anyway!!)

Whats the feeling on the ground
 
it can work with current prices , we can get over 14% ROI on south facing roofs - but we need 12 mths at 21p not 3 mths ...... it goes from nothing to crazy within days we need a steady flow ,,,,,
 
21p is too low and EPC 'D' is a ludicrous barrier.

Gear has already hit rock bottom from what I can make out.

It will be very interesting to see how the install figures pan out over the next three months. I think April's figures will be somewhere around the floor.
 
i dont think epc will not be too much a problem for us just more time on preparing jobs . EPC'S cost as little as £25.00 but it wont last long got a email offering them for £150.00 haa arrr ...

April will be difficult if barking gets his way with 16p ....

People must think theres a market to get MCS accreddited at this stage ...

I still think renewable energy is the way forward - the world is getting more expensive to live in fuels are sky high , people will pay to combat this ie solar pv - electric car recharged from own solar pv system , of course the gov dont wont this to happen but I dont think they have a choice.

solar pv or else we will have black outs in a few years time ...

but gov want nuclear !!!!
 
Band d is do-able in urban areas but a death knell for rural pv installers. We can make 21p work but the D rating is going to be our biggest challenge.
 
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The main issue with the 'D' rating is that it is another major obstacle to actually winning work and something that will inevitably hugely increase paperwork and survey time - for less money and less successful quotes.

It's okay to say that 21p 'works' on south facing, unshaded roofs - but what about the roofs that aren't?
 
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EPC is a nonsence. those whose houses are never going to achieve that level are now effectively barred from having PV and reducing their carbon footprint.
21p is just about workable, any less and your just dumbing it down to the lowest level. The worst kit and the most shortcuts a firm can take.
Barking has laid out his vision for solar production in the UK, and it doesn't included us. be under no illusions, the way this is going there will be no SSEG business in 2 years time in this country.
 
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Let's take these both in turn.


First the EPC requirement:

The principle that solar should be part of a package of energy efficiency measures isn't a particularly bad idea. The implementation however is full of flaws.

Having a fixed EPC requirement immediately rules out those houses which can never reach an EPC rating of D even if they implemented all possible efficiency measures - e.g. houses in areas which do not have a gas supply and have to rely on bottle gas, listed buildings which restrict what energy measures can be taken etc. It is also unfair - someone could be eligible for the FIT despite having no real efficiency measures in place; whilst someone else could have spent a small fortune on state of the art insulation etc. and still not be eligible. A requirement relative to the potential EPC of the building would have been far better. Ironically for many buildings which cannot achieve an EPC D rating, solar pv is pretty much the only practical way of improving their energy efficiency.

DECC have applied the EPC rating to anything that qualifies as a building. It appears that if you put solar panels on a barn which will feed into the grid directly (as opposed to feeding into a nearby house) you will still need the barn to have an EPC rating of D!

The EPC requirement adds to the complexity of selling solar pv - do you expect the customer to pay for the EPC survey, or do it for free as part of the survey. The former will put potential customers off; however, the latter will mean doing EPC surveys with no guarantee of a subsequent sale - this wouldn't be a problem if the profit margins for solar pv could accomodate this but the dramatic cut in FIT is also cutting the margin (and we aren't talking about massive banker-leve profits here, just being able to make a living).

Finally, the EPC adds additional time to the process, particularly if remedial work has to take place. This in itself is not a major problem apart from DECC are now proposing that they can reduce the FIT further should installations go above estimated levels with only 8 weeks notice. This means anyone requiring additional work could find themselves committed to this work when a FIT cut is announcement with insufficient notice for them to complete the work.


As regards the 21p:

This is pretty much the minimum level for solar pv to make sense. For some it is already too low for them to continue in the business and draw a decent wage. From the customers point of view the break even time is pretty much at the maximum that could be tolerated (and beyond it for many). It is already at the point where it no longer makes sense to take out a loan to cover some or all of the installation costs, which immediately restricts it to the few who have ready cash rather than the many. 25-30p would have been "bang on" to quote the OP. 21p is just a little too low, and not justified by the actual fall in the wholesale cost of materials (panels, inverters, mountings).

If it were to stay at 21p for 12 months, it might just work. However, DECC are proposing a further reduction to 16p a mere three months later, and a further drop of 5-10% three months after that, and then every 6 months with additional proposals that the FIT should not be index linked etc. If those proposals go through it pretty much makes solar pv a toy for the very rich only.
 
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but gov want nuclear !!!!

Im sorry but I tend to agree. Probably shouldn't as an installer but the truth of the matter is SSEG in never going to contribute anything like what our demands are let alone what they will be in the coming years. Off shore wind and large scale energy farms haven't got the longevity in them as nuclear has. Some will disagree but nuclear is save, clean and none fossil fuel with outputs meeting our needs.

This government is nothing more than a showman in a tramps coat! Talk the talk but can t walk the walk. They aren't going to continue to fund people's future investment with the FITs as there's nothing in it for them but the investment into nuclear will come in the form of private investment which the government will uptake and make it look like their grand scheme while, for the short term, hold onto the capital or not have to spend what they haven't got!

Either way PV isn't the answer.
 
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They aren't going to continue to fund people's future investment with the FITs as there's nothing in it for them but the investment into nuclear will come in the form of private investment which the government will uptake and make it look like their grand scheme while, for the short term, hold onto the capital or not have to spend what they haven't got!
er, but the investment in PV is virtually all private investment.

The Government's underwriting of Nuclears liabilities is also a massive public subsidy akin to the UK government having limited BP's liabilities in oil drilling to £160 million, with the UK government left to pick up the rest of the tab for cleaning up any mess. If BP can be left to fund it's own liabilities why should nuclear not be?

Either way PV isn't the answer.
well, not on it's own it isn't, but then neither is nuclear on it's own.
 
er, but the investment in PV is virtually all private investment.

The Government's underwriting of Nuclears liabilities is also a massive public subsidy akin to the UK government having limited BP's liabilities in oil drilling to £160 million, with the UK government left to pick up the rest of the tab for cleaning up any mess. If BP can be left to fund it's own liabilities why should nuclear not be?


well, not on it's own it isn't, but then neither is nuclear on it's own.

got to agree with you there Gavin
feel the love in the forum!!:winkiss:
 
The trouble with nuclear is that no one knows what the final costs will be. The issues with looking after the waste for quite a few years it not fully account for. Not to mention potential security issues. That said nuclear is certainly part of the answer, as are renewables, but I think energy efficiency could be the biggest contributor. If everyone could reduce their consumption by 50% or more (this is perfectly possible in most businesses and dwellings that I have surveyed.) then we would not need so much power production.
 
The Government's underwriting of Nuclears liabilities is also a massive public subsidy akin to the UK government having limited BP's liabilities in oil drilling to £160 million, with the UK government left to pick up the rest of the tab for cleaning up any mess. If BP can be left to fund it's own liabilities why should nuclear not be?


well, not on it's own it isn't, but then neither is nuclear on it's own.

It will be no different to how this government is funding the new schools and calling them acadimies, they aren't! There is no government money used to build these new schools it's all from corporate investment, private funds and mortgaged back to the government over the next x years. Nuclear investment will be the same. Buy now pay later. H.P power!

Im not saying nuclear on its own is the cure all, but it has it's place as does PV, Wind, Hydro and all other forms or renewable but not in SSEG. (Trust me I wish it wasn't the case) The dependence on fossil fuels has to be reduced but there are also other forms such as gas from landfill, farm effluent and biomass but when looking at these it's hand in pocket with the big six!

If we ever got to the same stage as the German model (which will not happen at the current rates on FITs) then yes SSEG will make a marked impact but with the newer rates and the EPC I just can't see the PV market being as strong. There has to be a bigger ageander which is beyond economic climate. The government tells us they are the greenest government yet but then wipes a renewable industry off the balance sheet. Our dependence on electrical energy will increase and at rates beyond what we can deliver so where is it going to come from? If not nuclear at a large % then I don't know what else can do it.
 
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I think we miss the point on Solar.

Solar is such an easy technology to install, it gives people a sense of energy security and encourages them to save and be a bit more conscious of that light they left on.

I encourage all my customers to change their habits once they've installed a PV system, most of them do.

Leading on from the previous posts, we don't need to build more Nuclear, we just need to use less.
 
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you don't solve the problem of feeding the world by telling fat people to eat less. You solve it by making food in more efficient and original ways.
 
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EPC Grade d and 21p Is the right thing
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