in after a cowboy, cooker nearly burnt the house down!

[adoselectrician]

Anything new you do will want an RCD as a rule of thumb. Especially in a kitchen or bathroom as these are classed as 'special locations'

A kitchen isn't a Special location..sorry to put a damper on things.

 

[jay b]

You need rcd regardless if cable is in wall or not as kitchen is regarded as special location

 

[petemadsen]

i have just been to look at a job where i was asked to install a cooker as the previous one had nearly burned the house down apparently. When i took the cooker out there was a large burnt patch (300m accross), loads of charcoal, almost got through 1/2" ply below . When i pulled out the heat resistant flex i couldn't see where it had been plugged into, but it's likely it was plugged into the ring. It is a 3200w cooker from argos, the customer had got an argos technician out and apparently the cookers fine and it was down to the installation. Customer reckons it was sat ontop of the connections and it was bodged up, i did try asking the customer to clarify how the cooker was connected up, but couldn't get much out of her! Theres a 2.5 t&e running below the worktop behind the cupboards, not connected to anything but still live? But couldn't find where it came from as all the cupboards are full to the brim!

It's only a small house, 2 up 2 down, it's tt, got a 100ma rcd upfront and a 8 way 3036 board with 3 circuits (ring, lights and shower). Ze is 5-6ish ohms. Would it be ok to spur it off the ring to a fused spur above the worktop, and then down to the cooker? An just put it on a minor works?
I'm not entirely sure what the line is about working on a circuit without 30ma rcd protection, do i need to add an rcd first or not?

Also, the voltage is 250v at this house, 3200w at 250v is 12.8, so it i put a 13a fuse in the fcu then it will be alright? I seem to remember something from college saying all calculations to be worked out at 230v, in which case the current will be 13.9a and it will be more than the fuse rating. Probably never blow, but what should i do here?

i would suggest that your priority would be ( as well as compliance with any relevant regs ) to protect the client and the property from any future mis-adventure, as well as yourself, so, as you don't know what's within thew walls,
fit the rcd as standard practice !!! Why chance ? Your job is'nt as a croupier in a casino or a game of chance, if you have any doubt at all, always aire on the side of caution and protect,protect,protect........ Yourself included.

 

[Generator]

12.8 or 13.9A ? a 1361 fuse will hold well above 13.9 Amp for evermore! Fuses are not overload devices! - they are for short circuit protection. I wouldn't dream of putting a cooker on 2.5mm cable, or even a spur off a ring - cookers should be separately fed as they can affect the diversity factor for the ring. I know it's only a wee cooker ( almost camping size!),
but what happens when the lady decides she would like a bigger cooker? She might go back to Argos!

 

[trev]

Fuses are not overload devices! - they are for short circuit protection.

Interesting point there mate, even wikipedia mentions overload protection and I wouldn't trust that site as far as I could throw you.

 

[RichieC]

As long as you surface wire it and make sure it is a FCU and not a socket outet you will not require an RCD. However, I would advise you make note of this on the cert. Always have your onsite guide mate, its very handy. Remember this job will need to be notified as its work in a kitchen ( special location ) Good luck!!

 

[Guitarist]

seems backwards to me, i explained to the customer what the situation so she could liase with the DNO direct and she was just baffled with terminology and started panicking when i said theres no incoming earth. hows she supposed to explain to the DNO what the problem is if she doesn't know herself? i'll speak to the customer again tomorrow and explain the hold up.

All you have to do if you are feeling like helping, is what I do...
Get customer to phone DNO and say "I don't understand all this rubbish and want you to talk to my electrician. I hereby authorise him/her to act on my behalf in this matter".
You then phone DNO and sort it out. Works every time for me.

 

[stonejenson]

Keep reading - that para only covers cables in steel conduit or with metallic protection, look on next page under diagram where it talks about circuits that are not in steel conduit or are unprotected - 30mA RCD is required for ALL circuits.
(Sorry, forgot to post quote with this and it came from an earlier page, re-OSG page 28)

 

[drew35]

I think the only way to settle this post is for us all to meet up at a centrally located pub, have a quick drink, and then fight it out in the car park!

We could all bring our OSG and BGB and use them as weapons!

 

[Guitarist]

I think the only way to settle this post is for us all to meet up at a centrally located pub, have a quick drink, and then fight it out in the car park!

We could all bring our OSG and BGB and use them as weapons!

My BGB is encased in a titanium folder....Bring it on.... :13:

 

[Strima]

My BGB is encased in a titanium folder....Bring it on.... :13:

Mine has pike nuts on it, went for the Gothic look... :lol:

 

[ExArmy]

Electricity northwest eventually changed the cutout for a PME one, and i have the customer agreed to a new board and a new cooker circuit. installed the cooker circuit just now and tested it, but the oven(brand new) is getting extreemly hot at the bottom, so i have disconnected it and told them i'm going to have to have a look into it.

heres the pictures from when it set onfire the first time

and the flex i removed, customer said originally it was because of the way it was wired up that i got too hot and the oven was sat on the JB, but i don't think thats possible as heres the flex i removed, not melted and looking in good condition. there was far too much copper on show, and no use of a flex clamp but i don't think that started the fire.

and before installing it i turned the lower plinth thingy round so there was not charcoal showing like so:

i've read through the instructions, no mention of an air gap below needed. whats your suggestions? gonna phone the manufacturer tomorrow anyway

 

[Amp David]

All ovens that i have installed have already had and air gap cut into the top of the plynth then usually at the back of the unit its open

 

[ExArmy]

i've just cooked my tea, unscrewed the oven and pulled it out and it was red hot too, but there was a 20mm gap between the wood and the metal oven, whereas theis cheapo argos oven just sits on the wood! what about new bit of wood, with a load of 20mm holes in it for cooling? i can't really sit in on 2 spacer to make an air gap as theres only so much room below the worktop.

 

[pto]

lets face it it a cheep oven

 

[Guitarist]

Maybe the cooker was objecting to that flooring pattern....

 

[ExArmy]

well i've decided the best people to speak to are the local kitchen fitter shop, I reckon a new base, drill a load of 25mm holes in it, and fix some louvre vents to the front and back so air can circulate below the oven. hopefully that will do the trick

 

[Silly Sausage]

Surely that oven must be faulty. The inner oven spaces are covered with insulation.
Doesn't seem right that the outer casing is getting that hot to burn the surrounding woodwork.

 

[alarm man]

its a shame that lino didnt get damaged...it either bad taste or the kids are out of control..mg_smile:

 

[Guitarist]

If you are following man. Instr and it is scorching the surrounding woodwork then it has to be either a faulty oven or a faulty design.