Is this a Part P failure?

[mainline]

I'd also add that chances of a back box becoming live in NI are significantly lower than in GB as there are few circumstances where cable sheath will be in contact with entry point of box. Cables buried in walls are enclosed in conduit and those in stud walls generally enter boxes through a PVC female adaptor that won't easily dislodge like a grommet might.

You may find the same sort of spark that doesn't fly lead may also not bother with grommets and say It's absolutely fine.

 

[nicebutdim]

You may find the same sort of spark that doesn't fly lead may also not bother with grommets and say It's absolutely fine.

I've no idea what practices are engaged in GB, but even the most careless spark in NI will ensure cables are suitably protected upon entry to metal boxes and seldom with a flimsy grommet.

The last time grommets were in widespread use for that purpose was back in the days of VIR (which was encased in oval metal conduit when buried). Later installations used oval PVC conduit and this was brought into back boxes. Modern installations used round conduit, either brought into boxes or finshed with an adaptor. Metal boxes in stud walls generally have a PVC bush for entry. This isn't just 'good practice', it's the only acceptable practice here. As such, the chances of a back box becoming live are exceptionally low.

Edit: the point I'm driving at is that one person's idea of good practice can be considered appalling by another. While it may indeed be good practice to have a flylead in metal boxes, it isn't necessarily a requirement and would appear to be the least of issues on the OP's list.

 

[mainline]

I've no idea what practices are engaged in GB, but even the most careless spark in NI will ensure cables are suitably protected upon entry to metal boxes and seldom with a flimsy grommet.

The last time grommets were in widespread use for that purpose was back in the days of VIR (which was encased in oval metal conduit when buried). Later installations used oval PVC conduit and this was brought into back boxes. Modern installations used round conduit, either brought into boxes or finshed with an adaptor. Metal boxes in stud walls generally have a PVC bush for entry. This isn't just 'good practice', it's the only acceptable practice here. As such, the chances of a back box becoming live are exceptionally low.

The thing that peeves me is that a lack of grommets or indeed lack of fly lead will get noted or may even pick up a c3 by the same sparky I've seen not use them.

 

[ipf]

It's not good practice, either.

Not all light switches have an earthing ring.

I would rather fit a fly lead as there is always the chance of the back box becoming live.

You could say that's a matter of opinion....and depends on the state of the
the installation anyway, especially termination wise.
It's a simple topic with loads of consequential 'ifs and 'if nots'.

 

[SJD]

I didn't say it was a requirement, and I didn't say it was bad practice.
But as said, it's not good practice.
Best practice is to fit a fly lead.
Try reading GN8

I've no idea how the above quote got inserted under my name!
Perhaps a Mod could delete it?

 

[brianmoooore]

I don't care what the regs, on site guide, or any of the scams say, I'm with mainline on this one. I do, and always will, connect a fly lead between any metal back box and any earth terminal on a face plate, to ensure maximum safety, even when the face is removed with the power on.

 

[ipf]

Standard install in 2022

Domestic has gone to Sh!t in the last decade of so

Although well on the way down, it certainly dipped pretty quickly after 2005, when Part P came into being.

 

[ipf]

I don't care what the regs, on site guide, or any of the scams say, I'm with mainline on this one. I do, and always will, connect a fly lead between any metal back box and any earth terminal on a face plate, to ensure maximum safety, even when the face is removed with the power on.

So do I, but that's not the point.

 

[brianmoooore]

dipped pretty quickly after 2005, when Part P came into being.

Which is exactly what I predicted would happen at the time. My exact words to a colleague at the time, were "monkeys bodging installations, now become monkeys bodging installations, with a certificate in their hands, saying they are doing it properly "

 

[ipf]

Which is exactly what I predicted would happen at the time. My exact words to a colleague at the time, were "monkeys bodging installations, now become monkeys bodging installations, with a certificate in their hands, saying they are doing it properly "

You're not the only one. It was obvious that standards had been declining for decades. It's just accelerated and it's something we'll never recover from.
I've been on about it on here for 12 years, having seen how things have developed since the 1970's.

 

[Midwest]

You're not the only one. It was obvious that standards had been declining for decades. It's just accelerated and it's something we'll never recover from.
I've been on about it on here for 12 years, having seen how things have developed since the 1970's.

Some of my colleagues were bodging it 40 years ago, so nothing new there.

Edit, make that 60!

 

[glennuk]

Can you post a pic of the whole of the inside of that meter box, please.

Hi,

Photo attached. Every installation of armourded cabling I've seen has a gland on the end which is then earthed (I manage a Datacentre so I see these everywhere!). Never seen one terminated like this.

 

[brianmoooore]

Right, now we can see a clear and definite deviation from the regs, not just some that could be open to interpretation.
You have exposed wires that are only single insulated - the cores of the SWA. All wiring that is not inside an enclosure requires two layers of insulation, like the meter tails. You can see the two layers where they leave the meter. (Also badly done!)

 

[timhoward]

There are several issues there but head and shoulders above the others is:
-Supplier fuse is OCPD device for a sub-main (which presumably exceeds 3m) (questionable CCC)
-lack of earthing/correct installation of SWA
-single insulated conductors accessible

 

[brianmoooore]

Like you say, there are many issues present, but: the 3m rule isn't a reg, and we don't know the length of the SWA. The SWA armour could be earthed elsewhere, but the single insulated wires are a slam dunk.
Think Al Capone. Multiple murders and heinous crimes , undoubtedly, but jailed on income tax evasion charges.

 

[MJPD29]

That swa is a complete mess. Single insulated cores and should probably have a switch fuse fitted too.

 

[littlespark]

Just to be pedantic about it, the basic insulation is technically inside an enclosure that can "only be opened by a tool or a key"

But it is a mess.

How did he cut the armour off that close to the side of the box?
There was plenty of room in there to do it properly.

 

[OnlQQker]

Just a point, back boxes do not need to be earthed if they have a fixed lug. This is not bad practice in any way.

I was always told they should be.
Just in case somebody in the future pulls them away from the wall when wallpapering or something. And the live conductor which isn't through a grommet can touch the metal back box?

 

[DefyG]

Is this a Part P failure?​

I'd say its a bit more than that.
There is no way the distribution circuit (armoured cable install) is compliant with the regs (BS7671) in many ways and its more than a deviation as (my understanding) deviations are permitted if no less safe than set out in the regs. This clearly is not and an installation certificate nor a building reg (Part P) certificate should ever have been issued.

 

[MJPD29]

@OnlQQker if the regulations were followed in the first place this situation would not arise. No untrained person should ever opening a live socket, and if an electrician is opening one a risk assessment is required. The regs are there to prevent the situation arising, not sort out problems after someone has done something dangerous in the future.