led downlighting wiring help

[J-b]

hi I just wondered if anyone could help at all I’m installing led down lights in my bedroom I’ve taken the original lighting/mains cable back into the loft which will be joined in a junction box and then run my cable from that to the first downlight and then run the second light of the first,the third of the second light and so on untill the end (8lights) the cable I’ve currently got to use is 1.5mm 3 core white flex is this ok to use/upto standards for what it will be being used for ?

Also the lights don’t require an earth so can I just clip the eart cable out the way? Any help would be appreciated thanks

 

[Ib≤In≤Iz]

Call an electrician?

 

[Andy5678]

Are you a spark?
Installing down lights is not a DIY job, so easy to do a bad/unsafe job.

 

[The Ghost]

Don't clip the earth out of the way. Leave it intact through to the last light for when you do your EFLI test. Make sure to clip the cable neatly throughout. Ensure you meet manufacturers recommendations regards thermal insulation. Don't forget your IR test just to be on the safe side. Be sure to meet building regs regards fireproofing, sound etc. Jobs a goodun.

 

[westward10]

What kind of joint box are you using including the ones for the downlights.

 

[buzzlightyear]

J.B, I see you are from Nottingham forest. I'm down your way in a couple of months ,give me a couple of bit coins I will do the job .
and you could call me robin hood .

 

[buzzlightyear]

Call an electrician?

I doubt that much, more like call a taxi.

 

[J-b]

I was planning to just run a in and out cable Into the joint box that’s already attached to the light itself and just thought that with them needing to be moved in and out painting the ceiling etc that flex cable would be more suitable than t&e cable as that will only take so many movements of being pulled up and down before it will break? That’s just what I assume lol

 

[buzzlightyear]

its a pity I put in a load of down lights this morning and I had no trouble putting them in !

 

[buzzlightyear]

I was planning to just run a in and out cable Into the joint box that’s already attached to the light itself and just thought that with them needing to be moved in and out painting the ceiling etc that flex cable would be more suitable than t&e cable as that will only take so many movements of being pulled up and down before it will break? That’s just what I assume lol

crack on !

 

[Rpa07]

Flex is ok to use, make sure it is neatly laid in the loft. As Vortigern said about the CPC (green/ yellow) connect it all the way along the route so it is continuous to the end light for testing.
Onto the more serious bit. It’s not easy to make downlights look great without some equipment that an electrician would have with them including the continuity testing equipment to know the circuit is safe to recommission, a laser or chalk line and hole cutters to make it very neat.
If you are going to do it yourself, safe isolation of the circuit and most importantly, please take a photo of the ceiling before and after to show us when you finish - we will then give you a pat on the back or say ‘told you do’.
Be careful.

 

[telectrix]

be aware that different makes/types of downlights require different sizes of holes. some are OK with a 16oz. claw hammer. some need a 5lb. lump hammer, to make the holes.

 

[Rpa07]

Ps check it’s not plaster and lathe before you start otherwise read the other thread!

 

[Pete999]

Def

Call an electrician?

definitely, you need the sevices of an Electrician, you shouldn't be taking on a project like this.

 

[J-b]

Lol thanks for the help the holes I measured and drilled out yesterday and laid the cable in place to all the holes so going to wire it all up and see how it goes should I leave the flex under the insulation in the loft or is it best sitting ontop?
will upload a finished pic (if I get that far!)

 

[J-b]

I am going to get it checked over just to be sure by an electrician once done but I’m pretty good at a lot of things including electrics so I’d rather have them checked over then have to pay out for an electrician to come and do all the work and wiring up etc and charge me ten times what the lights cost me lol

 

[buzzlightyear]

definitely, you need the sevices of an Electrician, you shouldn't be taking on a project like this.

now why would he need a spark Pete ,when he is asking a Straight forward question .when he has a jack hammer to put the down lights in .

 

[Pete999]

personally I would not use flex for fixed wiring, it's my choice not to, some will say it's OK to use flex, I guess I was brought up to do the job properly, by that I mean clipping the cable to the rafters, using twin and earth (in this case) cable, more importantly NOT cutting the cpc out.

 

[buzzlightyear]

but I’m pretty good at a lot of things including electrics

the microwaves pinged,
got my pop corn ready !

 

[Ib≤In≤Iz]

should I leave the flex under the insulation in the loft or is it best sitting ontop?

What do your calculations tell you?

 

[Rpa07]

The cable is best resting against a surface that it can transfer any heat to such as plasterboard or air itself so as long as it’s not wrapped up in itchy poo (insulation). As you’ve now gone ahead with it anyway do the best you can a post a picture, appreciated always.
It paints a thousand words wouldn’t you know!

 

[Pete999]

personally I would not use flex for fixed wiring, it's my choice not to, some will say it's OK to use flex, I guess I was brought up to do the job properly, by that I mean clipping the cable to the rafters, using twin and earth (in this case) cable, more importantly NOT cutting the cpc out.

I am going to get it checked over just to be sure by an electrician once done but I’m pretty good at a lot of things including electrics so I’d rather have them checked over then have to pay out for an electrician to come and do all the work and wiring up etc and charge me ten times what the lights cost me lol

What price safety, cash rules OK

 

[123]

This sounds like a lash up and a half. Correct cable should be used (Twin and Earth), the cpc should not be cut out, and cable should be clipped to joists, not just hidden in or under the insulation.

 

[Rpa07]

It’s all there @123, we can’t stop people doing these jobs, we probably would have done them ourselves before we were who we were but as he started yesterday and was after hints then what can we do. We offer advice which has already improved his install - granted it won’t be as good as ours but then we’re experienced. More tea?

Don't clip the earth out of the way. Leave it intact through to the last light for when you do your EFLI test. Make sure to clip the cable neatly throughout. Ensure you meet manufacturers recommendations regards thermal insulation. Don't forget your IR test just to be on the safe side. Be sure to meet building regs regards fireproofing, sound etc. Jobs a goodun.

 

[telectrix]

for what current the cable will be taking, i don't think insi=ulation is a problem. but you do need to leave a hole around each fitting, about 6" diameter.

 

[The Ghost]

What do Lap (=crap) say about insulation above their lights in the installation instructions? It looks like you will be using GU10s? Those fittings look like the old original JCC fittings bought out of the lock up and re-badged. They do not appear to have an intumescent seal on them which regarding fireproofing is not compliant, unless I am just not seeing the seal as it is transparent. It's your house but really, be careful regards the fire proof aspect. I agree with @Pete999, 1.5 T&E clipped (as also @123 has said) The heat generated by these fittings is quite high and insulation will exacerbate the problem. Before commissioning the circuit you need to test it to ensure it complies with BS7671 to prove it is safe to "switch on" or as most DIY do, the big bang theory. Putting flexy into the terminals in those lights is not as easy as it may seem. T&E will offer a more definite clean termination, whereas you may tend to get "spiders legs" of strands sticking out if you are not experienced especially as it is crouching in a loft with insulation and dark surroundings.

 

[Ib≤In≤Iz]

 

[Rpa07]

Like that’s going to happen Ib!

View attachment 41684

 

[Rpa07]

I do have a penchant for shoelace ferrules though!

View attachment 41684

 

[Ib≤In≤Iz]

I do have a penchant for shoelace ferrules though!

Likewise, every time on fine stranded conductors. I cant stand it when people just twist the strands together and shove it in a terminal.

 

[Rpa07]

Not saying I do it all the time though!

Likewise, every time on fine stranded conductors. I cant stand it when people just twist the strands together and shove it in a terminal.

Please don’t hate me!

 

[Rpa07]

Not saying I do it all the time though!

Likewise, every time on fine stranded conductors. I cant stand it when people just twist the strands together and shove it in a terminal.

Please don’t hate me!

 

[Andy78]

will upload a finished pic (if I get that far!)

Just forward it directly to your home insurance provider along with the certificate for the work.

 

[123]

It’s all there @123, we can’t stop people doing these jobs, we probably would have done them ourselves before we were who we were but as he started yesterday and was after hints then what can we do. We offer advice which has already improved his install - granted it won’t be as good as ours but then we’re experienced. More tea?

So if he's cut the earth out or used bellwire, it's ok cause he's already started. It's a lash up and a mess, best advice is to start again and do it right, or get someone in to do it right for you.

 

[J-b]

The earth has been reconnected all the way to the last light and then pulled back a little and wrapped with insulation tape

 

[J-b]

I clearly don’t see how it is ‘ a mess’ just because I’m doing it myself I’m using the correct cable all the lights are linked correctly the insulation’s been moved at least 8 inch all the way around each light and every connection is neat and clamped into each box on the light itself yes the cables currently lay under the insulation but there’s that much insulation in the loft you can’t see a single joist and would require all the insulation from above the room to be completely taken out to be able to secure the cable in place all the way along to the next light

 

[Rpa07]

You’re going to have to get to the party on time and read all of the posts. Being too over opinionated doesn’t look good on your CV

So if he's cut the earth out or used bellwire, it's ok cause he's already started. It's a lash up and a mess, best advice is to start again and do it right, or get someone in to do it right for you.

 

[westward10]

Don't worry about a bit of insulation.

 

[123]

You’re going to have to get to the party on time and read all of the posts. Being too over opinionated doesn’t look good on your CV

I can't support someone doing something that they are out of their depth on as the OP has shown. Telling them it is ok to use flex and tuck it under the installation neatly is not an acceptable installation method and if if anyone working for me did that I'd let them go.

It's all ok tough as he has wrapped the cpc in a bit of insulation tape. Great job, not.

 

[MDJ]

Are you a spark?
Installing down lights is not a DIY job, so easy to do a bad/unsafe job.

If he is he is one of a handful on the forum lol

 

[westward10]

I can't support someone doing something that they are out of their depth on as the OP has shown. Telling them it is ok to use flex and tuck it under the installation neatly is not an acceptable installation method and if if anyone working for me did that I'd let them go.

It's all ok tough as he has wrapped the cpc in a bit of insulation tape. Great job, not.

Whilst I do not condone leaving the cpc without a suitable means of termination or DIY installers how is a bit of insulation going to affect a 1.5 cable with a few downlights connected to it.

 

[J-b]

Maybe I’d do a better job of it if people were abit more helpful on here but majority just seems to be looking for a fault in anything and everything possible. advise me the best way and safest way to go about it or stay or out of it I thought this was supposed to be a discussion forum were people chat and help one another out but there’s very few people like that on here and everyone just wants to start an argument or debate but thanks to the ones who have been helpful I appreciate it thanks

 

[Andy5678]

MDJ - it’s all DIYers looking for free advice

 

[westward10]

Now now no need for that. Nearly all threads on here lead to debate with many different opinions.

 

[suffolkspark]

If you really are getting a qualified spark to check over it and test after complete ensure:

A there is no blue/brown conductor visible outside of the lights connector boxes.
B that you have crimped bootlace ferrules on each stripped end where it is terminated. This is required when using flexes in fixed wiring.
C you have observed manufacturers instructions regarding distance from joists, insulation covering etc etc.

If yes to all 3 you should be okay and safe...

 

[J-b]

Well so far so good all wired up and working fine and looking pretty good not bad for a first timer. I haven’t used the bootlace Ferrells but if this is essential then I don’t mind fitting them they’re all pretty easily accessible and come down fine

 

[Rpa07]

Few too many - I’d take 3 out and fill the holes!
Well done and thanks for the photos. You are officially the wild card!

 

[westward10]

That looks like a commercial site.

 

[dksanders]

Maybe I’d do a better job of it if people were abit more helpful on here but majority just seems to be looking for a fault in anything and everything possible. advise me the best way and safest way to go about it or stay or out of it I thought this was supposed to be a discussion forum were people chat and help one another out but there’s very few people like that on here and everyone just wants to start an argument or debate but thanks to the ones who have been helpful I appreciate it thanks

1. The clues in the name 'Electricians Forum' not 'forum where people can pick our brains for free to bodge a job'.

2. If you'd spent years training and getting qualified to become an electrician, had to buy £1,000's of tools and test equipment which you have to pay to have calibrated each year, pay £100's each year to be registered in a scheme and the associated loss of a day's pay once a year at assessment time, £100's on wiring regulation books, guidance notes and top up C&G courses whenever the regs change; then you'd be a bit down on amateurs who come on here fishing for advice on how to do our job rather than employ one of us.

"Any idiot can get a circuit to work, it takes knowledge and skill to get it to work safely"

...and as for taped up earth wires, it's just not 'Best Practise'

.... definitely does not look like a domestic location.

 

[Rpa07]

That’s a bedroom, there is the end of a bed. There’s a tv on the wall and a UPVC window. In the other shot shows something on top of a wardrobe.
Mods - close the thread - everyone is beginning to get ‘previous’.