LPG bottle bonding (again)

[vxwestie]

What do you guys do? And does anyone have the definitive answer?

I have an install where there is a LPG gas fire (one only) fed from two free standing LPG bottles.
The bottles are on the exterior of the building, fed via a copper pipe which passes through the external wall, about 6ft under the wood floor void, then 4ft along the skirting to the gas fire ) piezo (spelling) ignition.

I consider it to not be a extraneous part as it cannot introduce a potential and cannot be touched inconjunction with the electrical installation.

HOWEVER, the Gas-safe engineer claims his regs require it to be bonded as an incoming service.

Ive been picked up before by the NIcEIC assessor for bonding LPG when it doesn't need to be and could actually introduce a danger, ie spark generated when disconnecting bottles from the potential difference.

Do I bond at the customers expense, or do i stand my ground?

your opinions please gentlemen?

 

[DPG]

'Stand my ground' - brill

 

[telectrix]

IR test from gas pipe to MET. if above 22K, then not extraneous.

 

[snowhead]

From the gas regs;

18(2) Any person who connects any installation pipework to a primary meter shall, in any case where electrical equipotential bonding may be necessary, inform the responsible person that such bonding should be carried out by a competent person.

So who would be the competent person?The GaSafe Engineer or someone with electrical qualifications and experience?

 

[davesparks]

From the gas regs;

18(2) Any person who connects any installation pipework to a primary meter shall, in any case where electrical equipotential bonding may be necessary, inform the responsible person that such bonding should be carried out by a competent person.

So who would be the competent person?The GaSafe Engineer or someone with electrical qualifications and experience?

In this case that presumably doesn't apply as there is no primary meter, just a gas bottle.

Do they offer any suggestion as to what 'may be necessary' means in this case?

 

[Dave OCD]

I'm amazed at the number of main water bonds I see where the incoming supply pipe is clearly alkathene, same with oil pipework bonded and fed from a plastic tank. :biggrin:

 

[davesparks]

I'm amazed at the number of main water bonds I see where the incoming supply pipe is clearly alkathene, same with oil pipework bonded and fed from a plastic tank. :biggrin:

Domestically speaking I've adopted an attitude of bond it and save the hassle for any new or refurb/rewire type job.

 

[Dave OCD]

Domestically speaking I've adopted an attitude of bond it and save the hassle for any new or refurb/rewire type job.

I think this is still one of the biggest areas of uncertainty Dave and many will bond 'just in case' but from now on I'm only doing it if really necessary to ensure compliance.

 

[davesparks]

I think this is still one of the biggest areas of uncertainty Dave and many will bond 'just in case' but from now on I'm only doing it if really necessary to ensure compliance.

I've given up attempting to educate plumbers about when bonding is and is not needed so I just walk away and ignore them if they start having a tantrum because I refuse to clip 30 odd metres of green/yellow round the outside of a house to bond a plastic gas service!

The thing is though you cannot just assume that (and I'm sure you don't but I feel it needs to be pointed out) just because the incoming pipe is plastic it doesn't negate the need for bonding. It is not all that uncommon for a copper pipe to be connected to that plastic one which then is buried in the floor construction making it extraneous.

 

[Dave OCD]

I've given up attempting to educate plumbers about when bonding is and is not needed so I just walk away and ignore them if they start having a tantrum because I refuse to clip 30 odd metres of green/yellow round the outside of a house to bond a plastic gas service!

The thing is though you cannot just assume that (and I'm sure you don't but I feel it needs to be pointed out) just because the incoming pipe is plastic it doesn't negate the need for bonding. It is not all that uncommon for a copper pipe to be connected to that plastic one which then is buried in the floor construction making it extraneous.

Of course Dave, I always check and test before deciding, nice if it really isn't required though because it's a boring job.

 

[Paulgwat]

My first assessment with ELECSA was at a property where they had almost the same setup for gas cylinders for a fire in the lounge and I bonded the pipe work.

Assessor was happy when he saw it as he was expecting to be pulling me up for not doing it, so it seems even certsure employees don't agree amongst themselves!

 

[davesparks]

My first elecsa assessment saw me making a formal complaint about the assessor when he failed to spot the very obvious extraneous part I had removed the bond from before he got there. Plus he tried to tell me that regardless of what bs7671 says I should have supplied a hot tub the way he prefers to see it done despite my way being precisely to the letter of bs7671.

As far as I'm concerned these scam assessments are as much for me to see if they are up to the job as they are for them to see what I'm like. Much the same as a job interview.