Meter tails no rcd in stud wall

[newfutile]

During an EICR meter tails were found entering the cavity and coming down a stud wall to a consumer unit about 5 meters (direct distance) away.
they do have an isolator but no rcd or other protection .

as cables buried in a wall have to have (RCD) Residual Current Device at 30mA and generally tails over 3 meters are not permitted by DNO ,how can this comply?

 

[Rockingit]

They don't!

And more words

 

[DPG]

Is there no fuse either?

I hate meter tails in wall cavities.

 

[newfutile]

 

[Dustydazzler]

As above I hate meter tails being snaked through a wall cavity or run up inside a stud wall with no way of knowing where they are actually sited

Made even worse if there is no RCD protection

 

[littlespark]

Has this photo been uploaded before?
It seems very familiar.

 

[brianmoooore]

If the tails are in the cavity, they are almost certainly more than 50mm below the surface, so no RCD protection required.
Still a rough way of installing them though.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Has this photo been uploaded before?
It seems very familiar.

To be fair that is what 99% of new build meter boxes look like

 

[timhoward]

It looks like if they were pulled through properly they might be under 3m?

 

[Dustydazzler]

It looks like if they were pulled through properly they might be under 3m?

All that slack snaking around the box sends my OCD into hyperdrive , I would be re-doing them w

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Are the tails definitely bare in the stud wall, or is it possible they have mechanical protection, complying with 522.6.204, (which I think would mean no RCD req'd)?

I have come across this a few years back in a new build, when putting up a cabinet in a toilet. The tails were installed in a steel stud wall, and my magnet picked up the mechanical protection. Thinking it was just another steel stud, I tried drilling it for a couple of minutes, before realising something was amiss and checked the other side of the wall to find the CU there!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

During an EICR meter tails were found entering the cavity and coming down a stud wall to a consumer unit about 5 meters (direct distance) away.
they do have an isolator but no rcd or other protection .

as cables buried in a wall have to have (RCD) Residual Current Device at 30mA and generally tails over 3 meters are not permitted by DNO ,how can this comply?

As @Pretty Mouth has said in his post. I have twice now installed tails like this, both times I have used mechanical protection (3mm steel) which may not be visible without chiselling a bit of the wall out.

 

[newfutile]

Has this photo been uploaded before?
It seems very familiar.

no i took this photo today

 

[littlespark]

Very similar picture from this thread…

Thread 'Quality of work in new builds'
Quality of work in new builds - https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/quality-of-work-in-new-builds.187235/

But not exactly the same. As mentioned, it’s just the state of meter boxes nowadays on new builds.

 

[davesparks]

During an EICR meter tails were found entering the cavity and coming down a stud wall to a consumer unit about 5 meters (direct distance) away.
they do have an isolator but no rcd or other protection .

as cables buried in a wall have to have (RCD) Residual Current Device at 30mA and generally tails over 3 meters are not permitted by DNO ,how can this comply?

Cables buried in a wall don't have to have RCD protection, they can have other forms of protection.

As you are carrying out an EICR it is very difficult to confirm whether or not correct protection has been installed. Examination of cables buried within walls, under floors etc is a standard limitation.

You need to make a judgement call as to whether it is likely to comply or not. When was it installed, what is the general standard of the installation, what records are available?

 

[newfutile]

It’s a fairly new build 2017 ,the EIC he left at the property does not mention mechanical protection, also the tails must be 8 -10 meters long

 

[DPG]

It’s a fairly new build 2017 ,the EIC he left at the property does not mention mechanical protection, also the tails must be 8 -10 meters long

Definitely needs a fuse at source then.

 

[Rockingit]

It's the greater than 3m length with no upfront protection that does it.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I watched that efixx vid, and re-watched it a couple of times, and then had a read through the regs mentioned.

433.3.1(iii), 434.3 (iv), and item (ii) of 434.2.1, these make me think that the tails are not restricted to 3m, as long as they are well protected mechanically, and that the DNO agrees that they are protected by their fuse.

Does anyone know under what circumstances a DNO would agree, or even disagree, to this?

 

[davesparks]

I watched that efixx vid, and re-watched it a couple of times, and then had a read through the regs mentioned.

433.3.1(iii), 434.3 (iv), and item (ii) of 434.2.1, these make me think that the tails are not restricted to 3m, as long as they are well protected mechanically, and that the DNO agrees that they are protected by their fuse.

Does anyone know under what circumstances a DNO would agree, or even disagree, to this?

They'll probably never agree to it, certainly not for small supplies.
I've found that DNO's generally allow between 3 and 4 metres of tails maximum.