MY TV`s FREEVIEW CHANNELS HAVE WORSE PICTURE QUALITY AFTER SWITCHOVER !

[chris murphy]

"Hello All",

I have had Freeview on all of the TV`s in My Home since Freeview became available - all with a Great Picture.

I live in London as We have just had the `Switchover` on 4th and 18th April - Since then the TV Pictures have been NOT Great and have been adversely affected by the recent `Bad Weather` / Rain etc.

I am sure that I read often in the run up to the Switchover that the Signals would be `Better` and that Bad Weather would NOT affect the Signals ?

I have never seen the Weather affect the Picture / Signals before the Switchover.


I am near the Transmitter Tower for My Area and have had Great Pictures / Signals for over 25 Years - UNTIL NOW !

I cannot imagine that this means I would need to change My Aerials - Why would I have been receiving Great Pictures in the YEARS preceding the `Switchover` BUT Worse Pictures / Signals since then - when it had been stated that the Switchover would Improve the Signals ?


I have tried having the Aerial positions adjusted slightly - but they needed to be returned to the original positions to receive the now Inferior Signals / Pictures.

I cannot Try / use Signal Boosters as I have Sky wired to and connected to the Aerial Sockets of 2 of the TV`s - a Signal Booster interferes with the Signal from the 2nd Output from the Sky Digibox - I think via the small voltage supply to the Magic Eye for the Remote Controls [?] - causing NO Sky Signal - Remove Signal Booster = Sky Signal Works again.


I am hoping for comments from Members regarding the points about My Freeview Signals being Worse since the Switchover AND the Signals / Pictures being BADLY Affected by Bad Weather / Heavy Rain - as most Areas have had the Switchover quite a long time ago do any Members remember these Problems in their Area ?


Regards,


Chris

 

[UNG]

Have you rescanned / retuned the freeview channels since the switchover?

 

[chris murphy]

Have you rescanned / retuned the freeview channels since the switchover?

"Hello UNG",


Yes I did Retune on the 4th & 18th of April as required for the Switchover - and a couple of times again since then - just hoping that there were perhaps Problems with the Retunes on those two Dates - the additional Retunes did not Help.

Thanks for replying and mentioning that - in case it might have been the problem - I appreciate it.

Regards,


Chris

 

[UNG]

When you rescan make sure you clear the previously stored channels this can cause the problems you have

Don't know your exact location in London but when they did the North West and North Wales switchover in some areas they picked up reception from the wrong transmitter with a lower channel range which caused problems. you would need to know which channel range is used by your local transmitter and check what channel range you are receiving to check if this is the problem

 

[chris murphy]

When you rescan make sure you clear the previously stored channels this can cause the problems you have

Don't know your exact location in London but when they did the North West and North Wales switchover in some areas they picked up reception from the wrong transmitter with a lower channel range which caused problems. you would need to know which channel range is used by your local transmitter and check what channel range you are receiving to check if this is the problem

"Hello again UNG",

Thanks for your further suggestion about the Transmitter and clearing the previous Channels.

Regarding clearing the Channels this is an Automatic process on My TV Models and the Freeview boxes - in fact I have read in the Instruction Manuals that they `Retune automatically` every time that You put them on Standby - and IF a New Channel became available You would then have it the next time that the TV / Freeview Box was turned On.

I know that they definitely have always been Retuned from Factory Reset / `First Time Configuration` / First Time Channel Search - so the previously Tuned Channels would have been Deleted.

Regarding making sure that I am receiving the Signals from My Areas Transmitter I am close to the Main London / South London / North Kent / Surrey Transmitter at Crystal Palace which is the nearest Transmitter to My Area [by a long way] and has always been the one that We receive the TV Signals from.

I know that this is not necessarily the case in all areas that the Nearest Transmitter is where You get the best signal from but it is definitely the correct one for My Area of London.

Most of the Freeview Menu`s regarding `First Time Set Up` / Channel Tuning that I have on My TV`s and Freeview Boxes show the Predominant Transmitter so that You can check that it IS the one for your region - My TV`s / Freeview Boxes configuration Menu`s do show Crystal Palace as the Local Transmitter.


Again I am VERY Grateful for your suggestions as one of them could have been causing the Problem - "Thanks"


Regards,


Chris

 

[Tuttle]

I had trouble with the picture on one of my freeview boxes breaking up (going blocky) after the switch over and another (different manufactures) box reporting no signal for some channels. I fixed the no signal problem by resetting the box to factory settings, which also clears all channels on this particular box, and then re-tuning.

The box with the picture breaking up was showing a good signal strength but a signal quality that was going up and down erratically (there is a channel info option in the menus on this box that displays bar graphs). In the end I changed the aerial amp in the attic to one with variable gain and turned the gain down, which fixed the problem completely - good picture and good signal quality.

I'm picking up my TV signal from crystal palace. When they did the switch over they also increased the transmitter power, so it could be that the higher power signal is overloading some receivers, especially for people living close to the transmitter (I'm nowhere near the transmitter - I'm in Reading).

 

[chris murphy]

I had trouble with the picture on one of my freeview boxes breaking up (going blocky) after the switch over and another (different manufactures) box reporting no signal for some channels. I fixed the no signal problem by resetting the box to factory settings, which also clears all channels on this particular box, and then re-tuning.

The box with the picture breaking up was showing a good signal strength but a signal quality that was going up and down erratically (there is a channel info option in the menus on this box that displays bar graphs). In the end I changed the aerial amp in the attic to one with variable gain and turned the gain down, which fixed the problem completely - good picture and good signal quality.

I'm picking up my TV signal from crystal palace. When they did the switch over they also increased the transmitter power, so it could be that the higher power signal is overloading some receivers, especially for people living close to the transmitter (I'm nowhere near the transmitter - I'm in Reading).

"Hello Tuttle",


Thanks for your reply - I have been getting the Signal Quality Bars fluctuating Up and Down when it has been Raining heavily - I thought that I read previously that the Digital Signal would NOT be affected by Rain etc. ?

I had previously thought about Signal Boosters - when Freeview first came out - But after trying one it stopped the Signal from the Sky Boxes 2nd Output which I have wired in Sattelite Cable to some of the Aerial Sockets of the TV`s using a `Y Splitter` [Tee Piece] which also connects the Aerial Cable or Freeview Box Cable to the TV - as some TV`s have built in Freeview and the other older spare Bedroom TV`s have Freeview Boxes.

Even assuming that there was a Product that would NOT `Stop` the Sky 2nd Output Signal - I don`t really want to have to rewire the Aerial Cable from every TV in the House into the Loft / a Central position - for one thing I cannot actually get into a large aera of the Loft Space AND the Loft is completely Insulated with 420mm of Loft Insulation.

As You know this is far from Ideal if You want to access an area of the Loft or actually Do anything in the Loft Space !

At present I have 3 `Good` Aerials and 2 Sky Dishes / Boxes and I THOUGHT that I had everything `Sorted` well in advance of the Switchover - YEARS in fact !


I should explain that there are 2 TV`s connected to each of the 2 Sky Digiboxes - I of each conventionally via a Scart lead and then the other 2 are wired with Sattelite Cable from the Digibox 2nd Output under the Floor to the other Bedroom TV`s with a `Magic Eye` on each controlling the Digibox with a Sky Remote Control.

BUT these `Secondary` TV`s on the 2nd Output can only watch whatever is being watched On the other TV connected to the Digibox [IF anything is being watched] - OR Watch the Freeview Channels - that is why I would like the Freeview working correctly.


Now I have this problem with the `New` / `Better` Digital Signal Quality - mainly in Rain / Bad Weather.



Thanks again for your reply and suggestions - unfortunately I cannot put them into operation because of the circumstances of My TV`s Sky Inputs.


I may have to just forget about the spare Bedroom TV`s / Freeview Channels which probably would not be too inconvenient as those TV`s don`t really get used that much unless I have People staying.


I just HATE the idea of supposedly `Being Ready` for the Digital Switchover YEARS ahead of time and NOW having this problem !



Regards,



Chris



P.S. "Sorry everyone that this Post is so long.

 

[Tuttle]

I just had a quick look on the Internet for information on Crystal Palace (don't know if that's what you're on) and apparently "On 18th April 2012 transmitter power increased to 200kW on all multiplexes (from previous 10-20kW levels)" making it one of the highest power TV transmitters in the UK. That's according to Crystal Palace TV Transmitter, London Freeview Channels.

That sounds like a pretty substantial increase to me!

I'm not an aerial fitter by the way, and I don't know much about it, I just thought I'd let you know about my experiences with the switch over just in case it helps.

If I were you I'd phone some local aerial companies and ask them, they might know straight away what you're problem is.

 

[chris murphy]

I just had a quick look on the Internet for information on Crystal Palace (don't know if that's what you're on) and apparently "On 18th April 2012 transmitter power increased to 200kW on all multiplexes (from previous 10-20kW levels)" making it one of the highest power TV transmitters in the UK. That's according to Crystal Palace TV Transmitter, London Freeview Channels.

That sounds like a pretty substantial increase to me!

I'm not an aerial fitter by the way, and I don't know much about it, I just thought I'd let you know about my experiences with the switch over just in case it helps.

If I were you I'd phone some local aerial companies and ask them, they might know straight away what you're problem is.

"Hello Tuttle",


Thanks for your reply and the Link to the webpage about the Crystal Palace Transmitter which is the Transmitter for My area of London - I found the Information interesting although I don`t think that it shows any reason for My Problems - unless the Signal Strength Increase could cause them.

The Information about the `Vast` Increase in Signal Strength [10 Times] seems to show that this would actually `Help` the Reception for areas Close to the Transmitter [?].


Regarding Me contacting Local Aerial Companies to ask about My TV Reception Problems since the Digital Switchover - I am NOT being cynical here But:

They would definitely say that they had to send an `Engineer` to check My Aerials - this would obviously be Chargeable and would almost certainly lead to Me being told that I needed ALL the Aerials to be `Upgraded` to the [Non Existent] `Digital Aerials`.

I am aware of `High Gain` Aerials which are [in My opinion] incorrectly referred to as `Digital Aerials` and what I have fitted are versions of these `High Gain` Aerials.

EDIT - HAVING FOUND THE RECEIPT FOR THE AERIALS THAT I FITTED THEY ARE NOT `HIGH GAIN` AERIALS - JUST GOOD QUALITY `GROUP A` MAST AERIALS.

I have this opinion because when Freeview was first available I wanted to get ready to receive it for the TV`s that I had which were not connected to Sky Digiboxes [at that time] and I did contact some Aerial Installation Companies as I THOUGHT that I would need My Aerials Upgraded to `Digital Aerials` - I was NOT aware at that point that there is NO Such Aerial.

These Companies ALL stated that I would need them Upgraded to New `Digital Aerials` and the Quotes for 2 Aerials were Absolutely Ridiculous ! - Hundreds of Pounds !

I declined and started to research about Upgrading Aerials for Freeview / Digital Reception - I then found out that there is NO such thing as a `Digital Aerial`.

About 2 Years before that I had a New Roof put onto My Home and while the Scaffolding was up I Installed 3 new Aerials - Two to the Main Roof / Chimney`s and One to the Extension Roof Gable End - with help and an Aerial Signal `Finder` I positioned these Aerials to obtain `Great Pictures` on the TV`s.

I also had a Sky Installer check the Sky Dishes for the Cable Connections being Waterproof and that there was no degrading of the Satellite Cables at Roof Level and all the way to the entry points into the Building.

I mention this only to explain that My Aerials were already `New` when I was asking about the `Digital Aerial` Upgrade - I had told all of the Aerial Companies that I contacted what I wrote above - They ALL still told Me that there WAS such a thing as a `Digital Aerial` and quoted Hundreds of Pounds to Install 2 !


When the Freeview Channels became available We instantly had Great Pictures on the Freeview Channels using Set Top Boxes - So I assumed that the Aerials were correctly positioned for Freeview - Luckily.

When I purchased a couple of new TV`s they were obviously had built in Freeview - again I received Great Pictures with the existing Aerial positions.

When I had the Freeview Problems after the Switchover recently I had help from some Friends to check the positioning of the Aerials again - having moved the Aerials around we had to return them to the original positions to get the Best Reception for the TV Channels - although the problems still existed on the Freeview Channels which were problematic.

Since then We have noticed - mainly in Bad Weather / Heavy Rain which We have had plenty of recently - that the problems seem to be mainly on the ITV Channels - ITV1 - ITV2 - ITV3 - ITV4 and sometimes Channels 4 and 5 - there does not seem to be as many problems with the other Freeview Channels and seemingly NONE with the BBC Channels.

I cannot be exact about this because We have not spent Hours and Hours watching ALL of the Freeview Channels at times of these Signal Problems.


Thanks again Tuttle for your reply - I appreciate you trying to help Me.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Tuttle]

Hi Chris,

The Information about the `Vast` Increase in Signal Strength [10 Times] seems to show that this would actually `Help` the Reception for areas Close to the Transmitter [?].
Chris

Not necessarily. If you feed too much signal into your receiver then you might saturate the analogue stages and distort the signal. Don't forget that the RF signal that you receive is still an analogue signal and needs to be amplified by your receiver, and probably mixed down to a lower frequency etc, before it can be turned into a digital signal. If you saturate the input stages of your receiver then you will distort the received signal and corrupt the data carried by that signal.

Also, if you distort the signal, can you really rely on the received signal strength reported by your box? It probably depends on how your box measures signal strength. I wouldn't mind betting that the box doesn't measure the amplitude of the RF signal coming out of your aerial cable, but actually measures the signal strength at a later stage in the receiver circuitry and so the reported signal level could potentially be effected by signal distortion in the earlier stages.

What I am trying to say is don't dismiss the increased transmitter power without consideration just because more signal sounds better not worse. If you are right on top of the transmitter then you have to wonder if the signal you are receiving is too strong. I assume that you don't already have any amplification between the aerial and the receiver?

For me, I had no problems at all before the switch over, my problems started on the day of the switch over earlier this month. I started to look at what had changed on that day and ignored things that hadn't changed, i.e. they switched off the analogue signal, probably not going to make much difference to digital receivers, they turned up the wick, I thought that was a possible cause so I reduced the gain of my aerial amp and that fixed the problem. At that point I stopped looking, i.e. there could be some other significant changes that I don't know about because I stopped looking once the problem went away.

 

[Tuttle]

I've just done a quick Google search and turned up this: Freeview signals: too much of a good thing is bad for you | ukfree.tv - independent free digital TV advice

 

[Tuttle]

It looks like they sell attenuators in Maplin: http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...sg=AFQjCNGYs8SnUWuWfmvySe5rMVhrN2XD1Q&cad=rja

and also in B&Q, amongst other places (I searched for "digital tv aerial signal attenuator" on Google shopping)

 

[Spudnik]

Indeed, too much gain can also cause picture "blocking:.

I have also read somewhere that some (older freeview) TV's wont even be able to receive the new frequencies?

 

[PC Electrics]

I used to suffer from channel drop out during wind and/or rain. So I fitted a new aerial and hey presto, perfect all the time now. As your aerial is 25+ years old, I'd say you've had a fair life out of it and it's time for a new one.

 

[chris murphy]

Hi Chris,



Not necessarily. If you feed too much signal into your receiver then you might saturate the analogue stages and distort the signal. Don't forget that the RF signal that you receive is still an analogue signal and needs to be amplified by your receiver, and probably mixed down to a lower frequency etc, before it can be turned into a digital signal. If you saturate the input stages of your receiver then you will distort the received signal and corrupt the data carried by that signal.

Also, if you distort the signal, can you really rely on the received signal strength reported by your box? It probably depends on how your box measures signal strength. I wouldn't mind betting that the box doesn't measure the amplitude of the RF signal coming out of your aerial cable, but actually measures the signal strength at a later stage in the receiver circuitry and so the reported signal level could potentially be effected by signal distortion in the earlier stages.

What I am trying to say is don't dismiss the increased transmitter power without consideration just because more signal sounds better not worse. If you are right on top of the transmitter then you have to wonder if the signal you are receiving is too strong. I assume that you don't already have any amplification between the aerial and the receiver?

For me, I had no problems at all before the switch over, my problems started on the day of the switch over earlier this month. I started to look at what had changed on that day and ignored things that hadn't changed, i.e. they switched off the analogue signal, probably not going to make much difference to digital receivers, they turned up the wick, I thought that was a possible cause so I reduced the gain of my aerial amp and that fixed the problem. At that point I stopped looking, i.e. there could be some other significant changes that I don't know about because I stopped looking once the problem went away.

"Hello Tuttle",

Thanks for the message - I really appreciate your comments and the Links that You enclosed in the messages.

My comment that You quoted was not My opinion - I thought that Information on the previous website that You directed Me to was suggesting that the Transmitter Signal Strength Increase was actually designed to provide better Reception for the Homes that are Close to the Crystal Palace Transmitter [?] - although I have not had time Tonight to go back and verify that.

I am not VERY Close to the Transmitter - a few Miles away - But Homes that are really Close have had problems for Decades with what has been [Incorrectly ?] described in a Non Technical way as the Signal `Going over the Top` of the Homes - where the Homes are actually `Under` the Transmitter / within a few hundred Yards of the Tower.

I took the paragraph that I was commenting about to mean that Homes that are within a short distance of the Transmitter - even a few Miles away perhaps - would benefit from the Increase in Signal Strength - ?


I may have misread that and I will go back and look at it - But I can completely see that what You have stated could easily be the case regarding the Signal has now become `Too Strong`.

Thanks for the Link in your third message Tonight for the attenuator - I had wondered about getting one of those to try and Adjust the Signal Strength and I use a local Maplin Store where I will buy one to try out.

Having glanced at the website that you gave Me the Link for in your next message - the subject of Signal Quality seems to be perhaps equally important - if not more important ? - within the Information that I again `Glanced at` Tonight the problems that I have are described in a paragraph on Signal Quality.

I wonder if using a variable strength attenuator to lower the Signal Strength would mean that the Signal Quality could be Improved ?

I will obviously buy one and experiment with it on all the affected TV`s and IF this works I will buy one for each TV.


Thank You very much Tuttle - I really appreciate all of your Help and that You have done some online research - giving Me Links to what You have found which is very helpful.

When I started to have the Problems - immediately after the Freeview Switchover - I did go online to look for Information - where there were Thousands of sites available - BUT it has been particularly helpful to correspond with You and of course to read the webpages that You very kindly found and Linked for Me - "Thanks".

I will definitely carefully read the Information that You posted the Links to [Tonight] Tomorrow or Saturday and re-read the previous webpage relating to the Crystal Palace Transmitter.

I have Edited an earlier Post in Capital Letters to change what I stated about having `High Gain` Aerials - I have NOT got that type - I have Good Quality `Group A` Mast Aerials - which gave Excellent TV Reception on Freeview for Years before the Freeview / Digital Switchover this Month and I am sure are more than suitable for the `New` Freeview / Digital TV Signals.


I may be able to buy the Variable Strength Attenuator on Sunday from Maplin - But that is not definite as I may not be able to go out on that Day - whatever happens I will buy one by next Sunday and will then try it as soon as possible.

There is a problem with this as the ONLY Times that there are severe Problems seems to be when it is Raining Heavily [So most of the last 8 Days !] - So really I should be trying the Attenuator when I am having the Signal Problems to be able to see `Instantly` IF the Attenuator does solve the Problems.

When I get the Attenuator and get the Rainy Weather to Test whether it solves the Problems I will definitely Post the result on here for You to read.


"Thanks again for all of Your Help"


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

I used to suffer from channel drop out during wind and/or rain. So I fitted a new aerial and hey presto, perfect all the time now. As your aerial is 25+ years old, I'd say you've had a fair life out of it and it's time for a new one.

"Hello PC Electrics",


Thanks for your reply - My Aerials are not 25 Years old - I take it that You thought this from My comment:

`I am near the Transmitter Tower for My Area and have had Great Pictures / Signals for over 25 Years - UNTIL NOW !`

That was just a statement about NEVER having any Signal Problems from the Crystal Palace Transmitter in the 25 Years that I have lived in My Home.

My Aerials and the High Quality Screened Co-Ax cables are still in a fairly `New` Condition - they were looked at only a Week ago when with help I tried repositioning them to see if that would solve the problems - it did not and We returned them to the original positions which were Identified with a Signal Strength Meter.

If I did have 25 Year old Aerials I definitely would have replaced them.

I do appreciate Your reply - "Thanks"


Regards,


Chris

 

[ian.settle1]

I have read some where that when recieving the digital dignal the aerial has to be pointing directly towards the transmitter to get a clear signal unlike the old analogue signal which could have the aerial slightly off

 

[chris murphy]

I have read some where that when recieving the digital dignal the aerial has to be pointing directly towards the transmitter to get a clear signal unlike the old analogue signal which could have the aerial slightly off

"Hello ian.settle1",


Please don`t be offended by this - would that not mean that a VAST number of Homes in the Country would have had problems after the Switchover ? - as their Aerials would NOT have been perfectly aligned.

I did use an Aerial Signal Finder when I Installed My Aerials but how many People do that or have it done when Aerials are fitted - ?

I would guess that ALL Aerial Fitters use Signal Finders as they are a very inexpensive item [Approx. £15.00] - But what proportion of Aerials in the U.K. have been fitted by Aerial Installers ?


Regards,


Chris

 

[Dan the spark]

Just a quick one to think about, what's the cable like coming down from the aerial? Had one before that had been rubbing around on the roof tiles for a few years in the wind and had worn through and when it rained the water got into the cable and the tv kept cutting out and going rubbish, this only happened with the new signals

 

[chris murphy]

Just a quick one to think about, what's the cable like coming down from the aerial? Had one before that had been rubbing around on the roof tiles for a few years in the wind and had worn through and when it rained the water got into the cable and the tv kept cutting out and going rubbish, this only happened with the new signals

"Hello Dan",

Thanks for mentioning the Cable - as You stated this could cause problems - but not in my case.

I had the Aerial Cables looked at only about a Week ago when with the help of a couple of Friends / Ladders / Roof Ladders I had the Aerial Positions checked.

The Insulation / Cable Covering was not damaged or degraded as far as could be seen.

When I Installed the Aerials I bought and used the `Best` Aerial / Co-Ax Cable that I could find - it was `Double Screened` [If I remember the term correctly] and had the `Best Quality` Covering for External Use - I remember it being VERY Expensive.


The Problems that I have experienced started EXACTLY on Wednesday 18th April - Immediately upon Retuning the TV`s / TV / Freeview Boxes.

The Weather at that time [and often since !] was Heavy Rain and the problems were evident on ALL My TV`s - Both where Freeview is built into the TV`s and where there is a TV with a Freeview Box connected.

The Pictures were Freezing - `Pixalating` - and the Sound was broken up - Completely Unwatchable.


I am intending to Buy and Experiment with a Variable Strength Adjustment Attenuator to see If I can Lower the Signal Strength and therefore increase the Quality of the Signal [?]

I don`t know if seems Contradictory ? - Before corresponding about this on here and receiving some Very Interesting Replies I would have thought that the Stronger the Signal the `Better` - But I will Try with the Attenuator.

I will Post the Results - I cannot get the Attenuator until next Sunday - 6th May - I will then have to hope for a Day / Evening with Heavy Rain to replicate the Signal Problems



Please excuse Me not writing a Full explanation about the Problems again - I have described them in My other Posts.


Thanks again for your suggestion - I am sure that this may be helpful to someone else.


Regards

 

[Rockingit]

I got fed up with channel drop out so I removed our old aerial for a super big high gain digi one. The only problem was that I hadn't reckoned on the fact that it is now positioned slightly differently and is effectively immediately above the back door. So where do the birds now sit??!

 

[Mr.Si]

For those of you mentioning them, there is no such thing as a "Digital Aerial".


@Chris Murphy - I presume you are in the area where you need the Group A aerials? Hmm just checked ... http:// www .aerialsandtv. com/aerials.html#aerialgroups

Yep, you are, if you use Crystal Palace.

When your cable was checked, were any "kinks" found? I have suffered from this in the past.

Also, you mention signal boosters and have issues with these. I notice you are in a high gain area.
However, out of interest, have you tried a Masthead Amp?

I had to use one of these myself, but I get my signal from the Whitehawk Hill in sussex and the signal is low.

 

[chris murphy]

For those of you mentioning them, there is no such thing as a "Digital Aerial".


@Chris Murphy - I presume you are in the area where you need the Group A aerials? Hmm just checked ... http:// www .aerialsandtv. com/aerials.html#aerialgroups

Yep, you are, if you use Crystal Palace.

When your cable was checked, were any "kinks" found? I have suffered from this in the past.

Also, you mention signal boosters and have issues with these. I notice you are in a high gain area.
However, out of interest, have you tried a Masthead Amp?

I had to use one of these myself, but I get my signal from the Whitehawk Hill in sussex and the signal is low.

"Hello Mr.Si",


Thanks for your message.


Regarding the so called `Digital Aerials` - I was vehement in stating that there is NO Such thing in one of My Posts on this subject - I do realise that because My Posts have been So LONG that it would be easy to `Miss` a comment - and I realise that some People will NOT want to read all of what I wrote because of these Long Posts - I don`t mean to suggest that You have not read what I wrote.


When the Aerial Cables were checked they had no Damage and looked virtually the same as when New - there were No Kinks etc. - when I fitted the Aerials because I had Scaffolding Up at the time for fitting a New Roof I was able to Fix the Aerial Cables to prevent any `Swinging in the Wind` / Chaffing of the Insulation on the Tiles or Brickwork.


The Problem with Aerial Signal Boosters for My TV Aerials is that because I have TV`s where Sky is connected from the Sky Digibox 2nd Output via a Cable to a `Magic Eye` / the TV Aerial Socket - where obviously the Aerials are also connected via a `Splitter` [Y Piece] - I cannot use Signal Boosters [NOT that the Signal needs Boosting] because when I tried this a few Years ago [and again recently] the Booster caused the Sky Signal to the TV`s that are connected from the Sky Digiboxes 2nd Output / Cable to be `Lost` / Not Received by the TV`s.

This is obviously something to do with the Signal Booster having either Over-ridden the Sky Signal [Via Cable] with the Powerful Signal [?] - or possibly Blocked it because of a Voltage - ?

Regarding a Masthead Amp - I am now under the impression having corresponded with the VERY Helpful Members who have replied to Me about this problem that the Freeview Signals definitely do NOT need Amplifying / Boosting - In fact that the Signals probably need to be Decreased [?].

I am intending to buy a Variable Attenuator and see if adjusting the Signals from the Aerials will help to regain the Excellent Picture Quality that I had BEFORE the Freeview / Digital Switchover.

After purchasing one of these to TRY I will need to be able to Experiment on a Day / Evening with Heavy Rain as that is when the Signal Problems are so bad as to make the Channels that are affected Unwatchable.

I cannot purchase the Attenuator until Sunday and I will then hope for an Evening / Day with Heavy Rain in order to see what happens when I adjust the Aerial Signal [Downwards].


I will definitely Post My `Findings` on here as I really appreciate all of the Very Helpful Information and comments that I have received from Members - Yourself included.


I am intending to purchase the Variable Attenuator that the Link was Posted by Tuttle for from Maplin = £7.99 [Was £9.99 before offer] - http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...sg=AFQjCNGYs8SnUWuWfmvySe5rMVhrN2XD1Q&cad=rja AND a `Cheap one` from Toolstation - Cat. No: 86843 = £2.27 - [I was NOT able to include a Link to this here].

Because I will need 6 of these Variable Attenuators IF they work just as well the `Cheap` ones would obviously Save Me a bit of Money.

I will comment on whether there seems to be any difference in the `Attenuation` process between the £10.00 one and the £2.27 one - in case this helps other Members to save Money [?].


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello All",

Just a quick update about My Posting the Results of trying the Two different Variable Attenuators - unfortunately NO Success as yet:


I purchased one from Maplin last Sunday which I tried out on a couple of Aerial Cables during the Week on an Evening when it was raining [which causes the TV Signal problems] - it had NO effect whatsoever - so much so that I doubt that it was actually working [?]

I have exchanged this Today [Sunday 13th] and will try again on a Day / Evening when there is Heavy Rain - I probably will not have to wait long.

I also purchased the cheaper one from Toolstation Today but unfortunately because it was amongst other items that I bought I did not notice until I got Home that the Attenuator has Threaded Connections - presumably for `F Plug` Connectors [?].

IF that is the case I would need `F Plug to Coax Socket Adaptors` [2] @ £2.89 Each - making a Total of £8.05 - £2.27 for the Attenuator at Toolstation - Plus 2X £2.89 for the F Plug Adaptors at Maplin.

This is slightly more than the £7.99 for the Attenuator at Maplin so there would be no point in using these 3 Items - BUT also I am guessing that introducing 2 X Adaptors would obviously have an additional `Attenuating Effect` - Although that may not be a problem when using a Variable Attenuator to [Theoretically] `Turn Down` the Signal - ?


Sorry that I have not been able to give a more positive Result Tonight - I will check again with the replacement Maplin Variable Attenuator - when it Rains [Heavily] again - and Post the Result here.


Regards,


Chris

 

[UNG]

I also purchased the cheaper one from Toolstation Today but unfortunately because it was amongst other items that I bought I did not notice until I got Home that the Attenuator has Threaded Connections - presumably for `F Plug` Connectors [?].

IF that is the case I would need `F Plug to Coax Socket Adaptors` [2] @ £2.89 Each - making a Total of £8.05 - £2.27 for the Attenuator at Toolstation - Plus 2X £2.89 for the F Plug Adaptors at Maplin.

Just swap the standard Co-ax plugs for F type plugs, 10 F type plugs are only a couple pounds tops

 

[chris murphy]

Just swap the standard Co-ax plugs for F type plugs, 10 F type plugs are only a couple pounds tops

"Hello UNG",


Thanks for your reply - I wanted to be able to Check whether I can use the Toolstation Variable Attenuator to adjust the Aerial Signal Strength to each of 4 TV`s in order to be able to receive a Good Freeview / Digital TV Signal - without it being `Interfered with` during Heavy Rainfall.

I don`t really want to mess about changing these 4 Aerial Cable Plugs to F Plugs and also have to Cut Off an Aerial Plug from a `Good` RF / Aerial Lead and fit an F Plug to that to use between the Attenuator and the TV Aerial Socket to TRY the Attenuator on all of these TV`s.

An easier method would be to purchase the F Plug to Coax Adaptors that I mentioned in My previous Post @ £2.89 each - But as these would add to the £2.27 Cost of the [Toolstation] Attenuator making it Cost just slightly over the Price of the Maplin Variable Attenuator there would be NO Point in doing it that way.


Obviously it would be BEST to purchase the Maplin Variable Attenuators for these TV`s as they will just connect directly to the Aerial Plugs - IF I can establish that they can adjust the Aerial Signal Strength during Heavy Rainfall and cause the Signal Quality to Improve to produce a `Good` Reception.


Tonight I have tried the Maplin Variable Attenuator [Replacement from Sunday] during a Shower of Rain - although it was not Raining Heavily enough to cause problems with the Signal / Reception on Freeview the Attenuator did NOT seem to Alter the Signal in any way whatever the Adjustment - whether at Maximum or Minimum Strength.


I will have to wait for Heavy Rainfall to try this again - when the Signal IS being compromised - perhaps then the Attenuator will alter the Signal Strength and Improve the Signal Quality ?


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello All",

Just a quick Update on the situation:


I am still waiting for some Heavy Rainfall so that I can try the Maplin Variable Attenuator again in the conditions where some of My Freeview TV Channels - mainly the ITV Channels and Channels 4 and 5 are completely unwatchable.

We have had over 6 WEEKS where there has been some very Heavy rainfall but since I obtained the [Replacement] Maplin Variable Attenuator there has NOT been ANY `Heavy` Rainfall during which I could try the Attenuator while the Reception / Aerial Signal was giving a Pixalated / Freezing / Sound disrupted Picture.

I have found NO differences to the TV Reception when I tried [2 Of] the Variable Attenuator during just Showers of Rain - but at those times there was NO disruption of the Freeview / Digital Reception.

I was hoping that IF I could try the Attenuator when the Signal IS being Disrupted I MIGHT be able to Lower the Signal Strength and Improve the Signal Quality - Although because the Attenuator does not seem to be `Doing` anything to the Signal Strength [?] - I am NOT very confident that this will work.


Regards,


Chris

 

[MarkieSparkie]

I got fed up with channel drop out so I removed our old aerial for a super big high gain digi one. The only problem was that I hadn't reckoned on the fact that it is now positioned slightly differently and is effectively immediately above the back door. So where do the birds now sit??!

Hi mate, I had a similar problem with perching birds, so bought some plastic anti-perch bird spikes - problem solved!
Defender™ Bird Spikes and Pigeon Spikes from Jones and Son (UK) Ltd

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello All",

Just a quick Update on the situation:


I am still waiting for some Heavy Rainfall so that I can try the Maplin Variable Attenuator again in the conditions where some of My Freeview TV Channels - mainly the ITV Channels and Channels 4 and 5 are completely unwatchable.

We have had over 6 WEEKS where there has been some very Heavy rainfall but since I obtained the [Replacement] Maplin Variable Attenuator there has NOT been ANY `Heavy` Rainfall during which I could try the Attenuator while the Reception / Aerial Signal was giving a Pixalated / Freezing / Sound disrupted Picture.

I have found NO differences to the TV Reception when I tried [2 Of] the Variable Attenuator during just Showers of Rain - but at those times there was NO disruption of the Freeview / Digital Reception.

I was hoping that IF I could try the Attenuator when the Signal IS being Disrupted I MIGHT be able to Lower the Signal Strength and Improve the Signal Quality - Although because the Attenuator does not seem to be `Doing` anything to the Signal Strength [?] - I am NOT very confident that this will work.


Regards,


Chris

"Hello All",


Still NO Heavy Rainfall - Hopefully We will now be getting `Spring and Summer Weather` so perhaps I won`t have to wait much longer !

I will Post the Result of My Checking the Aerial Signal Attenuation process using the Maplin Variable Attenuator - But this might be a while yet.


Regards,


Chris

 

[jackdoor]

Hello,Looking through this long thread, Have had similar problems with retuning Freeview,just a few pointers if you dont already know, Have you tried a New seperate freeview box connected to your scart input on your tv.this would isolate the problem from the tv,
If your TV is a crt type or a flat panel with built in Freeview or seperate box , some older tvs and freeview boxes when retuned have problems with channel dropout on certain channels on digital namley channel 28 , see coverage for programs on crystal palace transmitter info on internet.
Aerials Group A (red) for the London area will cover channels 21-37.A wide band aerial (black) will cover channels 21-68 with loss of gain due to the larger bandwidth.
If you have more than 1 tv connected to your aerial system there must be an amplifier in circuit .try your attenuators in the aerial input to your amplifier for overall signal reduction.Vince.

 

[chris murphy]

Hello,Looking through this long thread, Have had similar problems with retuning Freeview,just a few pointers if you dont already know, Have you tried a New seperate freeview box connected to your scart input on your tv.this would isolate the problem from the tv,
If your TV is a crt type or a flat panel with built in Freeview or seperate box , some older tvs and freeview boxes when retuned have problems with channel dropout on certain channels on digital namley channel 28 , see coverage for programs on crystal palace transmitter info on internet.
Aerials Group A (red) for the London area will cover channels 21-37.A wide band aerial (black) will cover channels 21-68 with loss of gain due to the larger bandwidth.
If you have more than 1 tv connected to your aerial system there must be an amplifier in circuit .try your attenuators in the aerial input to your amplifier for overall signal reduction.Vince.

"Hello Vince",


Thanks for your reply - I have these [previously described] problems on 4 TV`s - 3 of these have Freeview Boxes and 1 has Freeview Built-into the TV - these are connected to 3 Aerials which are located on different parts of the Roof of My Home.

There are NO Amplifiers at all on these TV` Aerials / Aerial Cables and for YEARS before the Digital Switchover I had Excellent Reception on All of those TV`s - I was `Fully Set Up` Years in advance of the Digital Switchover.


The Problems that I have described here started EXACTLY on the SECOND Switchover Day of the Digital Switchover - there was Heavy Rainfall on the afternoon of that day and during periods of the next few Days and the Reception Problems that I have described were displaying throughout those periods of Heavy Rainfall.

As You know there was some very Heavy Rainfall during April and the beginning of May - the same Reception Problems were evident at each period of Heavy Rainfall.

I do have a Spare / New Freeview Box which I did try on each TV at the time of the Switchover / Problems - this did NOT make any difference - the Freeview Reception on some Channels - mainly the ITV Channels - Channels 4 & 5 was still Unwatchable.


I have purchased a Variable Attenuator from Maplin - Unfortunately [For this purpose] there has NOT been ANY Heavy Rainfall since I bought it - I have tried the Attenuator to see if the Signal Strength seemed to Alter from the Highest Setting to the Lowest - there did NOT seem to be ANY noticeable difference.


I am still hoping that I MAY be able to change the Signal Strength during a period of Heavy Rainfall / Signal Quality Disruption to alter the Signal Quality to an acceptable level [?] - I will try this the next time that I am at Home during Heavy Rainfall.


I have been told by a couple of Friends that they had similar problems [although not as bad] at the time of the Digital Switchover - they said that after having problems for DAYS [still during the period of Heavy Rainfall] the Freeview Reception went back to Excellent - Perhaps what I experienced for a few Weeks was a problem with the Broadcasted Signals for the Channels that were affected ? - I hope that this will be the case.


I will Post the Results of My `tests` wuth the Attenuator on here - But who knows when I will get the opportunity to check with the Attenuator during prolonged Heavy Rainfall ?


Thanks again Vince for your interest and reply to Me.


Regards,


Chris

 

[jackdoor]

Hello Chris ,
As all your Aerials are affected and are outside and only when it rains, Could be trees in line of sight with the aerials, coming into summer, leaves on the trees, wet leaves, reflecting signal,signals lower when rains .
Are your aerials on poles away from the roof,as roofs when wet, also reflect signals especialy when mounted in loft.
Perhaps this may throw some light on the subject.
Best Regards Vince

 

[chris murphy]

Hello Chris ,
As all your Aerials are affected and are outside and only when it rains, Could be trees in line of sight with the aerials, coming into summer, leaves on the trees, wet leaves, reflecting signal,signals lower when rains .
Are your aerials on poles away from the roof,as roofs when wet, also reflect signals especialy when mounted in loft.
Perhaps this may throw some light on the subject.
Best Regards Vince

"Hello again Vince",

Thanks for your suggestions - the thing is that all of My TV`s / Freeview Reception was excellent for Years - Until the Second Day of the Digital Switchover - I had wanted to have Freeview set up on all of My TV`s well before the Digital Switchover and I had achieved that Years before.

The Aerials are on `Masts` fixed really well to Brickwork they were aligned using an Aerial Signal Meter - they were Checked again recently when the problems started using a different Aerial Signal Meter - all were found to be receiving the `Best` / Strongest Signal.

The Trees around My Home are not particularly close to the Aerials / Roofs and have never caused any concern.


The main `indicator` here is that these Signal / Reception problems started on the Second Day of the Digital Switchover - I was at Home on that Day and I actually saw that from the time of Re-Tuning the Freeview Boxes / Freeview Built in TV that the Reception was immediately disrupted / unwatchable - Mainly on the ITV Channels plus Channels 4 & 5.

I had done Re-Tunes as prompted by the Freeview Boxes - Immediately upon turning them On on that Day and when I had the Reception problems I then carried out a Reset / `Tune from New` Re-Tune - which should have `Cleared` the previous Channels from the Freeview Boxes and then Tuned to the `New` Digital / Freeview Settings.

With the TV which has Freeview built in I carried out a Re-Tune and then also returned to Tune from `New Set Up` [Words to that effect] to have Cleared the previous Channel Set Up and Tuned from a New Installation Set Up.


None of this worked and as You know from April and early May - there was a LOT of Rainy Days & Nights for the Reception Problems to exhibit on My TV`s.


Thanks again for trying to help - your suggestions will probably help other People who have problems that are caused by one of the things that You described.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Geordie Spark]

"Hello Tuttle",


Thanks for your reply and the Link to the webpage about the Crystal Palace Transmitter which is the Transmitter for My area of London - I found the Information interesting although I don`t think that it shows any reason for My Problems - unless the Signal Strength Increase could cause them.

The Information about the `Vast` Increase in Signal Strength [10 Times] seems to show that this would actually `Help` the Reception for areas Close to the Transmitter [?].


Regarding Me contacting Local Aerial Companies to ask about My TV Reception Problems since the Digital Switchover - I am NOT being cynical here But:

They would definitely say that they had to send an `Engineer` to check My Aerials - this would obviously be Chargeable and would almost certainly lead to Me being told that I needed ALL the Aerials to be `Upgraded` to the [Non Existent] `Digital Aerials`.

I am aware of `High Gain` Aerials which are [in My opinion] incorrectly referred to as `Digital Aerials` and what I have fitted are versions of these `High Gain` Aerials.

EDIT - HAVING FOUND THE RECEIPT FOR THE AERIALS THAT I FITTED THEY ARE NOT `HIGH GAIN` AERIALS - JUST GOOD QUALITY `GROUP A` MAST AERIALS.

I have this opinion because when Freeview was first available I wanted to get ready to receive it for the TV`s that I had which were not connected to Sky Digiboxes [at that time] and I did contact some Aerial Installation Companies as I THOUGHT that I would need My Aerials Upgraded to `Digital Aerials` - I was NOT aware at that point that there is NO Such Aerial.

These Companies ALL stated that I would need them Upgraded to New `Digital Aerials` and the Quotes for 2 Aerials were Absolutely Ridiculous ! - Hundreds of Pounds !

I declined and started to research about Upgrading Aerials for Freeview / Digital Reception - I then found out that there is NO such thing as a `Digital Aerial`.

About 2 Years before that I had a New Roof put onto My Home and while the Scaffolding was up I Installed 3 new Aerials - Two to the Main Roof / Chimney`s and One to the Extension Roof Gable End - with help and an Aerial Signal `Finder` I positioned these Aerials to obtain `Great Pictures` on the TV`s.

I also had a Sky Installer check the Sky Dishes for the Cable Connections being Waterproof and that there was no degrading of the Satellite Cables at Roof Level and all the way to the entry points into the Building.

I mention this only to explain that My Aerials were already `New` when I was asking about the `Digital Aerial` Upgrade - I had told all of the Aerial Companies that I contacted what I wrote above - They ALL still told Me that there WAS such a thing as a `Digital Aerial` and quoted Hundreds of Pounds to Install 2 !


When the Freeview Channels became available We instantly had Great Pictures on the Freeview Channels using Set Top Boxes - So I assumed that the Aerials were correctly positioned for Freeview - Luckily.

When I purchased a couple of new TV`s they were obviously had built in Freeview - again I received Great Pictures with the existing Aerial positions.

When I had the Freeview Problems after the Switchover recently I had help from some Friends to check the positioning of the Aerials again - having moved the Aerials around we had to return them to the original positions to get the Best Reception for the TV Channels - although the problems still existed on the Freeview Channels which were problematic.

Since then We have noticed - mainly in Bad Weather / Heavy Rain which We have had plenty of recently - that the problems seem to be mainly on the ITV Channels - ITV1 - ITV2 - ITV3 - ITV4 and sometimes Channels 4 and 5 - there does not seem to be as many problems with the other Freeview Channels and seemingly NONE with the BBC Channels.

I cannot be exact about this because We have not spent Hours and Hours watching ALL of the Freeview Channels at times of these Signal Problems.


Thanks again Tuttle for your reply - I appreciate you trying to help Me.


Regards,


Chris

Isn't it a bit like over gassing ????

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello Geordie Spark",

I like the analogy - although I understand what another Member stated about the Signal Strength being too strong and perhaps affecting the QUALITY of the Signal - this would ONLY occur during periods of Heavy Rain - I wonder how likely this is ?

When I tried a Variable Attenuator - [2 Of - from Maplin] during just Light Rainfall there did not seem to be ANY Difference to the Signal / Reception at either the Lowest or Highest Signal Strength - Although there was NO Signal Disruption at that time so I cannot be Certain that I can`t alter the Signal Strength to improve the Signal Quality.


I will have to try again when We get some Heavy Rainfall - probably fairly soon as Wimbledon Tennis Weeks will soon be on !


Regards,


Chris

 

[Geordie Spark]

"Hello Geordie Spark",

I like the analogy - although I understand what another Member stated about the Signal Strength being too strong and perhaps affecting the QUALITY of the Signal - this would ONLY occur during periods of Heavy Rain - I wonder how likely this is ?

When I tried a Variable Attenuator - [2 Of - from Maplin] during just Light Rainfall there did not seem to be ANY Difference to the Signal / Reception at either the Lowest or Highest Signal Strength - Although there was NO Signal Disruption at that time so I cannot be Certain that I can`t alter the Signal Strength to improve the Signal Quality.


I will have to try again when We get some Heavy Rainfall - probably fairly soon as Wimbledon Tennis Weeks will soon be on !


Regards,


Chris

Aye .... Wimbledon and the annual Geordie Town Moor Hoppings ............. Guaranteed to make it pish doon !!!!

 

[Tuttle]

Something else worth considering ... someone was telling me recently that freeview boxes can sometimes tune themselves into weak signals from other transmitters, which can cause reception problems, and I guess could explain your problem with heavy rain.

I think that I have had this problem with one of my boxes. When the regional BBC news came on one box showed news from the south but my other two boxes showed news from London. Searching though the channels I found that BBC London was actually on channel 325 on that box instead of channel 1.

Maybe try clearing all channels and retuning next time you see the poor reception, e.g. in heavy rain when the signal from other transmitters should be weaker. I've also heard that you can enter your postcode into some boxes, or there may be other ways of controlling which transmitter they tune into.

I seem to remember that with analogue TV you would often find snowy channels while tuning, especially on old TV's with manual tuning, but you would just carry on going until you found a strong signal. I guess that the box could auto tune into one of those weak signals and being digital show a perfect picture most of the time.

 

[chris murphy]

Something else worth considering ... someone was telling me recently that freeview boxes can sometimes tune themselves into weak signals from other transmitters, which can cause reception problems, and I guess could explain your problem with heavy rain.

I think that I have had this problem with one of my boxes. When the regional BBC news came on one box showed news from the south but my other two boxes showed news from London. Searching though the channels I found that BBC London was actually on channel 325 on that box instead of channel 1.

Maybe try clearing all channels and retuning next time you see the poor reception, e.g. in heavy rain when the signal from other transmitters should be weaker. I've also heard that you can enter your postcode into some boxes, or there may be other ways of controlling which transmitter they tune into.

I seem to remember that with analogue TV you would often find snowy channels while tuning, especially on old TV's with manual tuning, but you would just carry on going until you found a strong signal. I guess that the box could auto tune into one of those weak signals and being digital show a perfect picture most of the time.

"Hello Tuttle",

Thanks for your message / suggestions.

I think that the TV Signal that I receive from the Crystal Palace Transmitter is the ONLY Signal that the Freeview Boxes / TV`s can receive where I live.

I believe that it is so `Strong` that it would not allow any other Signal / Transmission to be received where I live in South London - and I have never experienced any other Area`s TV Signal / Channels being received here.


Regarding Retuning the Freeview Boxes / TV`s when there is Heavy Rainfall - I was doing that regularly during the period from the Second Day of the Digital Switchover onwards [during Heavy Rain] for 2 or 3 Weeks.

The start point of these problems was definitely the Second Day of the Digital Switchover - Whatever Upgrades / Processes occurred on that Day [?] - I had Excellent Freeview TV Reception for YEARS before that Day / Date.


Thanks again for your interest and suggestions - I really appreciate your involvement and Help with this.

Regards,


Chris

 

[Ian B]

Not sure what value your attenuator goes up to, but it may not be enough!
To see if it's doing anything look at the signal strength bargraph on the receiver - if it doesn't drop below maximum with the attenuator on max attenuation then either the attenuator isn't working, or it's not large enough (plug two in line one after the other and try again.

 

[Ian B]

Oh, and gthe other thing that can cause problems in high signal areas is poor quality cable, either the aerial downlead/house wiring cable that isn't foil shielded (cheap stuff usually from electrical wholesalers), or the fly lead from the wall socket to the receiver. If it's one of those thin white ones then try changing it for a good quality foil screened one.

Either of these cable routes can pick up signals directly, that then interfere with the 'original' signal from the aerial.

(in all of this I assume the problem you are referring to is 'blocking'/'pixelating' of the picture on screen, rather than some other form of interference?)

 

[chris murphy]

Oh, and gthe other thing that can cause problems in high signal areas is poor quality cable, either the aerial downlead/house wiring cable that isn't foil shielded (cheap stuff usually from electrical wholesalers), or the fly lead from the wall socket to the receiver. If it's one of those thin white ones then try changing it for a good quality foil screened one.

Either of these cable routes can pick up signals directly, that then interfere with the 'original' signal from the aerial.

(in all of this I assume the problem you are referring to is 'blocking'/'pixelating' of the picture on screen, rather than some other form of interference?)

"Hello Ian B",

Thanks for your messages.

Yesterday I had the perfect opportunity to try the Variable Attenuator again on the Aerial Cables to My TV`s - Because of the VERY Heavy Rainfall last night which is what causes the Unwatchable Signal / Reception from My Freeview Boxes / Built In Freeview on TV`s.

I also purchased a New Freeview Box to try and see if this was also affected by the Signal / Reception Problem - It Was.

I believe that the Variable Attenuator adjusts from 0 to 20 in the Signal Range [?] I was hoping that IF the problem was that the `New` Digital Signal was too Strong and was affecting the Signal Quality that I could turn down the Strength to achieve a better Quality Signal.

Whatever the Adjustment using the Attenuator - Nothing changed on the TV Reception / Picture Quality - I could not get a decent Picture at all - it is Pixelated / Blocking / Sound badly distorted - Totally Unwatchable.

Because I have previously looked at the Display of the Signal Strength & Signal Quality on the On Screen Display from the Freeview Boxes I did look to see if the adjustment with the Attenuator was altering those values - As far as I could see it was NOT - even when adjusted to the Lowest Signal Strength.

When the Signal Displays are showing during periods of No Reception Problems the Signal Strength is at Maximum but the Signal Quality is only just about 60% - when there is a Reception Problem during Heavy Rainfall the Signal Strength is still at Maximum and the Signal Quality falls to approximately 35 to 40% - this seems to cause the Signal to become absolutely Unwatchable.

This Reception problem seems to apply to just the ITV Channels - Channel 4 and Channel 5.

I will now purchase another Variable Attenuator and try what You suggested about connecting the Two Attenuators together - to see IF that will Lower the Signal Strength and hopefully then Improve the Signal Quality [?] - "Thanks" for suggesting this.

Regarding My Aerial Cables - these were installed by Me when I also Installed New Aerials and the Cable was `The BEST that is available` - I was told this at the Time by an Electrician Friend who advised Me what to purchase - The Cable was definitely `Double Screened` / Copper Screening of the Highest Specification generally available - I was very surprised at the Cost - especially as I need to get enough for 4 Aerials - from the Roof down to various TV positions.

I don`t have Aerial Socket Outlets installed but I do have some Fly Leads made up from the same Cable as I used from the Aerials [Double Screened] - If I ever needed to move the TV`s for any reason - the Aerial / Co-Axial Plugs are also Good Quality as I would never buy or use Cheap fittings on any Electrical / TV / Satellite Equipment [Or anything else in My Home].


What I am VERY aggravated about Ian is that this all Started at the time of the Digital Switchover - I had almost perfect Reception on Freeview to ALL of the TV`s in My Home for YEARS prior to Day TWO of the Digital Switchover [18 April ?]


Nothing changed about My TV Aerials or in My Home on that Day except for the Second Stage of the Digital Switchover !


Something that I find strange is that My Neighbours do NOT have these problems to anything like the extent that I am experiencing on My TV`s / Freeview Boxes - They do have some Pixelating of the Screen for a few seconds at a time and obviously also the Sound is affected - But seemingly not to the extent where it becomes Unwatchable.

My Neighbours have only `Standard` / Inexpensive Freeview Boxes and their Aerials and Aerial Cables are NOT of the `Best Quality` !

Perhaps now that the Digital Switchover has happened My Aerials and Aerial Cables are TOO GOOD !

When I purchase the additional Variable Attenuator I am going to get an Indoor Aerial - not an `Electrical` / Attenuated Aerial - just a Basic Indoor Aerial and Check out the Freeview Reception using that - Perhaps that will `Attenuate` the Freeview Signal enough to make the Signal Quality better - ?


Thanks again for your suggestions.


Regards,


Chris

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello",

Tonight during fairly Heavy Rainfall I connected TWO Variable Attenuators together [Ian B`s suggestion] and tried adjusting the Signal Strength from the various Aerials to My TV`s to TRY to get better Signal QUALITY / Reception for the Digital / Freeview Channels that are BADLY Affected during Heavy Rainfall.

I was able to actually See the Signal Strength being lowered on the Signal Indicators from the Freeview Box Displays but the Signal Quality was never increased nor was the Reception / TV Picture any better during these adjustments.

as I have often mentioned in My Posts about this Problem - These Signal / Reception Problems only started on Day Two of the Digital Switchover in My Area / London - for YEARS before this I had already sorted out My Freeview Reception and it was Excellent on ALL of My TV`s.


NOW I still have Unwatchable TV Channels on ALL TV`s except for My 2 `Main` TV`s where Sky is the `Supplier` of the Channels that We watch - these Channels are mainly ALL of the ITV Channels - Plus Channels 4 & 5 - I am still irritated about this as the TV`s in 2 Bedrooms and the Kitchen TV have Channels that cannot be watched during periods of Heavy Rain.

I cannot be `Unique` in having these problems - although as I mentioned My Neighbours do NOT have the Signal / Reception disruption to the extent that I have - If there were `London Wide` Signal Problems I would have expected to have at least Read about / heard about this.

I was not able to purchase an `Ordinary` Indoor Aerial on Sunday when I bought the Second Variable Attenuator as there was not one in stock - But although I probably will get one - JUST to `Rule Out` that option - I cannot imagine that it would produce a `Better` Signal QUALITY than My Top Quality Roof Aerials and Top Quality / Double Screened [Copper] Aerial Cables & Fittings.


Thanks to All Members who have tried to Help Me with this - I really appreciate all of your Time and Suggestions / Information.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Ian B]

Hi Chris.

It's difficult to diagnose much more without a site visit, and my only remaining thought is that your aerial is picking up a reflection or multi-path signal from the same or another transmitter from a wet roof (as it's evident in heavy rain), but this is fairly unlikely. The test with an indoor aerial might eliminate that.

I can only suggest you either get a professional aerial installer to come out and check the system, or contact Digitsal Uk Digital UK - Help although I suspect they will say the same.

Go for a CAI member company and try to choose an experienced one that is familiar with your particular area. Directory Search Page

Let us know how you get on though :icon14:

 

[chris murphy]

Hi Chris.

It's difficult to diagnose much more without a site visit, and my only remaining thought is that your aerial is picking up a reflection or multi-path signal from the same or another transmitter from a wet roof (as it's evident in heavy rain), but this is fairly unlikely. The test with an indoor aerial might eliminate that.

I can only suggest you either get a professional aerial installer to come out and check the system, or contact Digital Uk Digital UK - Help although I suspect they will say the same.

Go for a CAI member company and try to choose an experienced one that is familiar with your particular area. Directory Search Page

Let us know how you get on though :icon14:

"Hello Ian",

Thanks very much for trying to help Me with this - I really appreciate your Time and your suggestions.

What REALLY irritates Me is that I made a point of getting ready and Fully Set Up for Freeview / Digital TV Switchover YEARS before it occurred - I had almost perfect Reception on ALL of the TV`s for YEARS prior to April this Year.

I wonder what could cause My Excellent TV Reception - on Freeview / Digital to have these problems on Day 2 of the Digital Switchover ?

It would be good to get a Professional Aerial Installers `Technical Investigation`/ Opinion about this - The problem is that even SOME Companies / Individuals who are Registered with the Industry`s Voluntary `Governing Body` are NOT Trustworthy regarding reasonable Charges.

There has been quite a lot of Talk in areas of South London where I know People about a LOT of People being Ripped Off with Charges in the run up to the Digital Switchover for the Installation of Roof Aerials - some by So Called Professional Aerial Installers.

I don`t really want someone coming to MY Home and possibly NOT being able to `Diagnose` the Problem - which could ONLY be checked during Heavy Rainfall as it ONLY exists then - But then wanting to Charge Me an exorbitant `Fee` / Call Out Charge Plus........


I know that this seems as if I am `Putting Down` Professional Aerial Installers - I am NOT - From what I have Read in Newspapers and what I have seen on TV and heard from Friends there are obviously MANY Cowboy Installers who are `Registered Installers` - these People then give the Entire `Industry` and everyone working in it a Bad Name.

I remember the Watchdog / Rogue Traders program that `Exposed` some Registered Installers - they were simply taking the P... out of their Customers with their Work and Prices.

I will check around for recommendations for an Aerial Installer who has done work for someone that I know - and who perhaps is also `Registered Aerial Installer`.

Although I have mentioned often in My Posts how `Irritated` I am about this - that is because I tried to ENSURE that I was Set Up for Digital TV YEARS in advance of the Switchover.

The Unwatchable Channels problem does NOT affect My Everyday TV Viewing - in fact it does not affect ME at all - the Signal / Reception Problems are `On` Bedrooms TV`s and the Kitchen TV - ONLY during Heavy Rainfall.

That is why I would rather NOT have to get an Aerial Installer involved - unless I could obtain Technical Advice and was then able to Eliminate the problems at a `Reasonable Cost`.

To Pay an Expensive Invoice for an Intermittent [Heavy Rain Only] Problems to SOME Channels only on Bedroom 2 and Bedroom 3 TV`s and the Kitchen TV would in My opinion be Foolish.


Thanks again for your help Ian - IF I ever get this sorted out [?] I will Post the Result Here.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Ian B]

Chris,

I understand your frustration, and of course there are good and bad guys/firms in any industry.

You should be aware there is a difference between "Registered Digital Installers" (some, but by no means all, of whom were set up just to do DSO work), and CAI members.

Some firms are 'members' of both, and I'm not saying all of either group are good or bad, but the CAI offers a 'warranty' service to consumers who use one of it's members, so if there is a case of poor workmanship or inappropriate charges, then they can step in and assist the customer. The CAI Promise

I doubt anyone will give you a fixed price to resolve the problem without a site visit first, however, once they've been and identified the problem then they should be able to provide a price to fix it, assuming they don't do so on the first visit.

As a general rule, the guys that do 'systems' work (MATV, SMATV, IRS, etc) will have all the test gear and be experienced. Again I'm not saying residential installers won't have the same gear, as with all trades there are those who are more 'technical' than others.

Good luck!
Ian

 

[chris murphy]

"Hello again Ian",

Thanks for your reply - My over long explanation should really just have read that I don`t feel the Intermittent Problems [During Heavy Rainfall] on TV`s in usually `Spare` Bedrooms merits paying out for an Aerial Installer to try and rectify the Problems - for the Kitchen - just watch a Channel that is NOT Disrupted during Heavy Rain.


I was trying NOT to irritate You or any Aerial Installer / Company with My comments and I know that there are GOOD / Reputable Aerial Installers - But the Industry has received plenty of `Bad Press` recently due to the Cowboy`s that also carry out this work.

I know that EVERY Industry has the `Over Chargers` - I would NOT want to single out Aerial Installers.

I am a Heating Engineer and obviously for the Gas Installation part of My Trade I am Gas Safe Registered - BUT People could quite easily get a Gas Safe Registered Engineer / Installer who was Fully Qualified and Registered [A Legal Requirement] BUT they could still be a `Rip Off Merchant` !

Just as with any Trade / `Governing Body` there are Disreputable People / Companies and `Over Chargers`.

I would never have expected an Aerial Installer to give Me a Fixed Price without seeing the scenario regarding My Aerials / Cables etc. and the Signal / Reception Disruption - Just as I would not give a Price for Heating - Plumbing or Gas Work without visiting the Property.

Regarding an Industry Registration Body deciding on what would constitute `Over Charging` / Inappropriate Charges I have had experience of trying to Help a Family Member who was Over Charged by a Company - The Industry `Mediators` had ridiculous ideas about `Fair Pricing` / Charges.

Even the Legal Profession have ridiculous views about `Fair Charges` for Trades and Services - As their Charging Structure is based on HIGH Charges.

I would NEVER need an Industry Body to Complain to about any `Over Charging` as I simply would NOT Pay an Exorbitant Amount for ANY Service.

Thanks again Ian for all of your suggestions - IF I ever do get the problems resolved I will Post the result on here.


Regards,


Chris

 

[UNG]

I came across this site while looking for some info for a job and looked at the Crystal Palace info with this thread in mind hope it may be of some help

Crystal Palace Transmitter

 

[chris murphy]

View attachment 13308

I came across this site while looking for some info for a job and looked at the Crystal Palace info with this thread in mind hope it may be of some help

Crystal Palace Transmitter

"Hello UNG",

Thanks very much for the Information and Link to the webpage about the Crystal Palace Transmitter - this has some interesting / informative information.

If You were mainly referring to the section about Aerial Types [?] - I have the correct `Group A` Aerials - Specifically for Group A Transmitters - Crystal Palace being one of those - My Aerials are very similar in appearance to the Aerials in the Attached Picture.

Since My last Post about the Digital / Freeview Reception issues I have experienced the previously described problems on a couple of Days when there was NOT Heavy Rainfall !

As Members / Readers would have read from My Posts I had only been getting the problems during periods of Heavy Rain and I had thought that this was the ONLY time that the Reception problems occurred - getting the Unwatchable Channels situation during Days that had Good Weather surprised Me.


Thanks again for your interest - I really appreciate You trying to help.


Regards,


Chris

 

[Aok1]

You need an aerial company which has a spectrum analyser so your signal levels, carrier to noise, bit error rate etc can be checked.

Cheap signal level meters are not much use with digital transmissions.

1)Your issue could be water damage to the aerial
2) Poor signal levels
3) Excesive signal
4) Interference caused by impulse noise or tetra radio can cause problems
5) If you have sky looped in then the modulator inside the receiver may be faulty or set incorrect.
6)Coax damage or water in the coax
7) Multipath distorsion

The only way to solve this is to get an engineer out with the right test equipment.

I think you would pay about £55-£85 for callout in london.

check this lot out - You need an aerial company which has a spectrum analyser so your signal levels, carrier to noise, bit error rate etc can be checked.

Cheap signal level meters are not much use with digital transmissions.

1)Your issue could be water damage to the aerial
2) Poor signal levels
3) Excesive signal
4) Interference caused by impulse noise or tetra radio can cause problems
5) If you have sky looped in then the modulator inside the receiver may be faulty or set incorrect.
6)Coax damage or water in the coax
7) Multipath distorsion

The only way to solve this is to get an engineer out with the right test equipment.

I think you would pay about £55-£85 for callout in london.

Check this lot out - FixMyAerial.com i can say all these guys know what they are doing and have proper equipment.

 

[chris murphy]

You need an aerial company which has a spectrum analyser so your signal levels, carrier to noise, bit error rate etc can be checked.

Cheap signal level meters are not much use with digital transmissions.

1)Your issue could be water damage to the aerial
2) Poor signal levels
3) Excesive signal
4) Interference caused by impulse noise or tetra radio can cause problems
5) If you have sky looped in then the modulator inside the receiver may be faulty or set incorrect.
6)Coax damage or water in the coax
7) Multipath distorsion

The only way to solve this is to get an engineer out with the right test equipment.

I think you would pay about £55-£85 for callout in london.

check this lot out - You need an aerial company which has a spectrum analyser so your signal levels, carrier to noise, bit error rate etc can be checked.

Cheap signal level meters are not much use with digital transmissions.

1)Your issue could be water damage to the aerial
2) Poor signal levels
3) Excesive signal
4) Interference caused by impulse noise or tetra radio can cause problems
5) If you have sky looped in then the modulator inside the receiver may be faulty or set incorrect.
6)Coax damage or water in the coax
7) Multipath distorsion

The only way to solve this is to get an engineer out with the right test equipment.

I think you would pay about £55-£85 for callout in london.

Check this lot out - FixMyAerial.com i can say all these guys know what they are doing and have proper equipment.

"Hello Aok1",

Thank You very much for your suggestions and advice - I am sure that everything that You stated could affect the Digital / Freeview Reception on My Home`s TV`s.

BUT - What could cause ALL of them - 5 TV`s / TV & Freeview Boxes to have Great Reception for YEARS until `Day 2` of the Digital TV Switchover - and from that point onwards have problems that make watching some Freeview Channels Impossible ?


With regard to perhaps receiving a Signal that is `Too Strong` - I have tried the Attenuator / Double Attenuator adjustment process - No noticeable improvement at all.

As I have written some VERY Long Posts I presume that You have not seen that I have 3 separate Aerials.

So even if it could have been Water Penetration into the Cable Connection or Cable on One of them on the Exact Day [Day 2] of the Digital Switchover - this would not account for the same Reception problems on ALL TV`s - connected to the other 2 Aerials.

The 3 Aerials and their Cables were inspected visually just after these problems occurred for any sign Movement or Damage to the Insulation - all were in very good condition as they were fitted clipped to the Party Wall and Brickwork of the House - not left blowing about in the Wind as I often see.

I have had the Sky Boxes connected to the Bedroom TV`s for Years with no problems.

What has baffled Me is the problems started exactly `ON` the Digital TV Switchover - Day 2 [London].

I have had the Freeview / Digital Receivers working perfectly for YEARS before that Day.

I even purchased a `Digital Switchover Approved` Freeview Box to try that on All of the TV`s / Aerials - I wanted to rule out the possibility that the `Older` Freeview Boxes could not handle the New / Increased Power Signal [I had read about that possibility] - the same problem exists with the New Freeview Box.

I will keep your suggestion details - about getting an Aerial Installer who has a ` spectrum analyser` to come and check My TV Aerials Signals - BUT - the problems ONLY [usually] display during periods of Heavy Rainfall - I would have to be able to arrange for a Visit during Heavy Rain - this would NOT be easy to definitely predict.

Thank You very much for your interest and for your suggestions and advice - I really appreciate it.

Regards,

Chris