Discuss No CPC in lighting circuits / Fire damage in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net
It very much does.The ESF Best Practice Guide 1, actually states the opposite for a domestic dwelling, indent 10.7.
That’s why it’s important to attach a warning label at the CU stating that no class 1 accessories are to be fitted to the lighting circuit with no cpc.So looking at indent 10.7, it seems it is not permitted to reconnect a cpc free circuit when changing a CU as there is no supervision to ensure that nobody swaps accessories for conductive ones!!
That’s why it’s important to attach a warning label at the CU stating that no class 1 accessories are to be fitted to the lighting circuit with no cpc.
Don’t know who came up with such a label tho as it’s not in bs7671?
Not in a Million years,Does a label class as effective supervision though ?
If the end user cannot be trusted to heed information imparted verbally and written on a certificate, what magic exists in the label to change things ?
So looking at indent 10.7, it seems it is not permitted to reconnect a cpc free circuit when changing a CU as there is no supervision to ensure that nobody swaps accessories for conductive ones!!
Because the regulations assume electrical work to be carried out by competent persons electrically skilled.Does a label class as effective supervision though ?
If the end user cannot be trusted to heed information imparted verbally and written on a certificate, what magic exists in the label to change things ?
ELECTRIC MAGIC!!!! !!!!Because the regulations assume electrical work to be carried out by competent persons electrically skilled.
a warning label clearly on view at the CU should not be missed by anyone skilled carrying out electrical work as the lighting would be isolated at the CU. However we don’t live in the fairytale that bs7671 wants us all to live in and the inevitable DIY jobs will ignore the warnings.
Like I said tho I’m not sure where this requirement for the label has gone from?
I’m assuming the ESC / best practice guide to which the likes of Napit and the Niceic seem to endorse this warning label method as a last resort.
Eh? Come again??ELECTRIC MAGIC!!!! !!!!
Sorry meant for someone else ignore please, appologiesEh? Come again??
With a caveat "who will be paying"?rewire the lights. you can't reconnect/joint to cables that don't comply with current regs. are the insurers penny pinching?
I also sort guidance when trying to understand the writings of BS7671.
Electrical Safety First Best Practice Guide 1, also gives some guidance; https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/media/1203/best-practice-guide-1-issue-3.pdf
Indent 10.7, if this is in a domestic property.
So don't reconnect C1s and C2s, this is clarified in the note to 6.2.3. In BPG4, it codes "Absence of circuit protective conductors in circuits having only Class II (or all-insulated) luminaires and switches" as C3. To me, this is clear - it's okay to reconnect.
Best Practice Guide 4. I assume the advice in these guides carries some weight, but please correct me if not.And BS7671 requires that an installation relying on double insulation as a protective measure be under the supervision of a skilled/competent person.
I'm sure BS7671 carries more weight than a BPG4, whatever that means? Is BPG4 an obscure reference to an IET guidance document?
Best Practice Guide 4. I assume the advice in these guides carries some weight, but please correct me if not.
When changing a CU, does everything in the installation have to be to current regulations? Or is the statement "BS 7671 does not require existing circuits to be
upgraded to current standards in order for them to be connected to the outgoing ways of the replacement consumer unit." correct?
Red/black conductors, missing grommits, junction boxes under floor boards, all C3s. I'm guessing you'd reconnect circuits with these observations, if I judge you by my standards. Missing CPC on lighting circuit with only class 2s or all insulated accessories, also C3. No immediate or potential danger.Who write this best practice guide? Unless it's an IET publication I wouldn't be inclined to rely on it for anything.
No, not everything has to be to current regulations, a non-compliance that has no safety implication can be disregarded.
For example red and black conductors do not comply with the current regulations, however they can be reconnected without any concern as this in itself does not affect safety.
That statement is incorrect because BS7671 does not make any statements about replacing consumer units, it just sets out the standards that electrical installations should comply with.
What are the specific requirements of BS7671 for a consumer unit change?People seem to be placing too much faith in the Best Practice Guides. If the worst were to happen in a domestic scenario I suspect the only document which would play a part in any proceedings would be BS7671 and your interpretation of its requirements.
There are none.What are the specific requirements of BS7671 for a consumer unit change?
So where are you taking your guidance from for consumer unit changes?There are none.
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