NYY Buried Cable - Legit job?

[mattg4321]

Just goes to show what a joke these scams are.

What is the point of all us honest/rule abiding sparks paying out subs every year and having our annual inspections if it means nothing.

The scams are not there for the customer or the electrician, they are there purely to make money.

 

[mattg4321]

OP if you are still reading you should quote them the relevant section of their code breakers book.

I think that would then be ‘game set and match’ and I would expect them to swiftly apologise and say what a big mistake they have made and offer to put it right.

 

[suffolkspark]

Afternoon all, Napit have just phoned me back, they have thoroughly looked into it, and listened to the recorded call from the OP. After ascertaining the cable type and installation methods from the customer they did infact tell them it was incorrect, however at approx 6 minutes into the call after being told basically the slabs etc all need to come back up to replace it, the OP began asking if it was unsafe or dangerous, which it obviously in real terms isn't, which the tech support told him, and it seems that final part of the conversation was all he then wanted to soak in as it were. This wasn't mentioned to us us full in the posts. They have provided him a follow up call to clarify and given a tech sheet showing that NYYJ is suitable for direct burial, but that's not compliant with BS:7671 unless in a duct as we know.

So overall, seems we didn't get the full picture initially, the installer now knows it's wrong and is rectifying, and Napit have followed it up with the customer too which is good.

Well handled Napit, you shall have another £474 from me next year and a handful of notification fees ?

 

[DPG]

Afternoon all, Napit have just phoned me back, they have thoroughly looked into it, and listened to the recorded call from the OP. After ascertaining the cable type and installation methods from the customer they did infact tell them it was incorrect, however at approx 6 minutes into the call after being told basically the slabs etc all need to come back up to replace it, the OP began asking if it was unsafe or dangerous, which it obviously in real terms isn't, which the tech support told him, and it seems that final part of the conversation was all he then wanted to soak in as it were. This wasn't mentioned to us us full in the posts. They have provided him a follow up call to clarify and given a tech sheet showing that NYYJ is suitable for direct burial, but that's not compliant with BS:7671 unless in a duct as we know.

So overall, seems we didn't get the full picture initially, the installer now knows it's wrong and is rectifying, and Napit have followed it up with the customer too which is good.

Well handled Napit, you shall have another £474 from me next year and a handful of notification fees ?

Great stuff, thanks for the update. Always good to get the full story. Good that NAPIT looked into it.

 

[IAmSparkytus!]

Would NYYJ have the CCC of an armoured cable or a PVC/PVC cable?

Ref A for cable type or ref F?

 

[pc1966]

Would NYYJ have the CCC of an armoured cable or a PVC/PVC cable?

Ref A for cable type or ref F?

It would basically have the same rating as SWA, though probably reaching final temp a little faster as no armour to provide thermal inertia.

This NYY-J case is odd because it really comes down to the BS spec saying (these days) you must have earthed armour (or separate duct) if buried so it is not compliant, and the cable (and EU usage) saying it is OK if not likely to be damaged by digging, etc.

 

[OsramMyers]

ANOTHER UPDATE -

Did anyone get on the phone to NAPIT about this and report this thread?

The person I spoke to on the phone called me back yesterday afternoon out of the blue and said he reviewed our conversation on Tuesday with a colleague as it was recorded and wanted to go through what we said.

Basically from saying on Tuesday the depth makes it OK yesterday he just said plain and simple it is NOT compliant and this is why -

"The NYY cable range includes NYY-J and NYY-O cables. These are widely used European power and control cables designed for fixed wiring installation with a voltage rating of 600/1000V. They can be safely deployed in most applications where mechanical stresses are not anticipated – indoors, outdoors, direct burial underground, in concrete, or submerged in water. When NYY cables are required to comply with the UK wiring regulations BS7671 for burial in the ground, they require installation in a conduit or duct to provide protection against mechanical damage. They are not suitable for installation in concrete which is shaken, vibrated or compressed.
NYY-J & NYY-O Cable | Eland Cables - https://www.elandcables.com/cables/nyy-j-pvc-pvc-0-6-1kv-power-cable"

When my NAPIT electrician comes to replace the SWA I will be confronting him about this. I will present this email from NAPIT to the electrician. At the moment I have to assume my electrician is misunderstanding the regulations. If I get any sense that he has put this NYY cable in because he was lazy (I know its more hassle to bend and gland SWA's) and has knowingly signed off this installation as safe and conforming with regualtions I will be putting in a formal complaint to NAPIT.

 

[OsramMyers]

Afternoon all, Napit have just phoned me back, they have thoroughly looked into it, and listened to the recorded call from the OP. After ascertaining the cable type and installation methods from the customer they did infact tell them it was incorrect, however at approx 6 minutes into the call after being told basically the slabs etc all need to come back up to replace it, the OP began asking if it was unsafe or dangerous, which it obviously in real terms isn't, which the tech support told him, and it seems that final part of the conversation was all he then wanted to soak in as it were. This wasn't mentioned to us us full in the posts. They have provided him a follow up call to clarify and given a tech sheet showing that NYYJ is suitable for direct burial, but that's not compliant with BS:7671 unless in a duct as we know.

So overall, seems we didn't get the full picture initially, the installer now knows it's wrong and is rectifying, and Napit have followed it up with the customer too which is good.

Well handled Napit, you shall have another £474 from me next year and a handful of notification fees ?

That is not true.

Then guy on the phone had not heard of an NYY cable I ended up explaining it was basically unarmoured. He then asked how deep it was and what was covering it, 300mm deep 5m distance, mainly gravel, a bit of paving. He said it was fine as its a spade depth. He said my issue was a contractual one.

 

[OsramMyers]

If the reply you got was from Trevor at napit he's a clueless old fool and a danger to be giving advice

Yes it was Trevor I spoke to.

 

[westward10]

ANOTHER UPDATE -

Did anyone get on the phone to NAPIT about this and report this thread?

The person I spoke to on the phone called me back yesterday afternoon out of the blue and said he reviewed our conversation on Tuesday with a colleague as it was recorded and wanted to go through what we said.

Basically from saying on Tuesday the depth makes it OK yesterday he just said plain and simple it is NOT compliant and this is why -

"The NYY cable range includes NYY-J and NYY-O cables. These are widely used European power and control cables designed for fixed wiring installation with a voltage rating of 600/1000V. They can be safely deployed in most applications where mechanical stresses are not anticipated – indoors, outdoors, direct burial underground, in concrete, or submerged in water. When NYY cables are required to comply with the UK wiring regulations BS7671 for burial in the ground, they require installation in a conduit or duct to provide protection against mechanical damage. They are not suitable for installation in concrete which is shaken, vibrated or compressed.
NYY-J & NYY-O Cable | Eland Cables - https://www.elandcables.com/cables/nyy-j-pvc-pvc-0-6-1kv-power-cable"

When my NAPIT electrician comes to replace the SWA I will be confronting him about this. I will present this email from NAPIT to the electrician. At the moment I have to assume my electrician is misunderstanding the regulations. If I get any sense that he has put this NYY cable in because he was lazy (I know its more hassle to bend and gland SWA's) and has knowingly signed off this installation as safe and conforming with regualtions I will be putting in a formal complaint to NAPIT.

Winner, winner.

 

[stevethesparks]

Even if it were ok at a 300mm depth (and I don't agree it is) how does the cable enter and exit the ground, is this part mechanically protected? Also, did the electrician cover the cable with yellow hep tape?

 

[OsramMyers]

Hi, he has been and done the work replacing with SWA. I told him about the BS7671 and what NAPIT said but he just murmerred something about no traffic over the ground.

Just another question. He has not earthed the actual armouring part of the cable. It is a 3 core cable which one is earth. Should the armouring be earthed too?

 

[westward10]

Most definitely it should be earthed. How is it connected either end.

 

[brianmoooore]

The whole point of SWA is that the conductors are totally surrounded by earthed steel wires. Without an earth connection, the wires would just become live if the cable was spiked, and the power wouldn't automatically be disconnected.

 

[DPG]

Hi, he has been and done the work replacing with SWA. I told him about the BS7671 and what NAPIT said but he just murmerred something about no traffic over the ground.

Just another question. He has not earthed the actual armouring part of the cable. It is a 3 core cable which one is earth. Should the armouring be earthed too?

Is this an electrician doing the work?

 

[suffolkspark]

@OsramMyers could you attach a photo of the glands used to terminate the cable? Should be a brass gland with a slide over black shroud on each end

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Looks like he's coming back again.

 

[ipf]

Is this an electrician doing the work?

Napit approved.....with some weird ideas, it seems!

Unless he just likes bringing it on himself.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

There's always a chance he has earthed it. The OP would need to check both ends of the cable and know exactly what they were looking for. In addition, I sometimes bend the banjo inside the plastic junction box, so the little nut and bolt may not even be on view.
Firm evidence needed before the chap is condemned again. Plus, I'm not advising the OP starts undoing electrical items to take a look unless he 100% knows what he's doing and switches all power off first.

 

[suffolkspark]

If the new unit he fitted in the garage is metal, and he's used proper glands it'll be fine, but I'm expecting a photo of a couple of compression glands... lets hope not... OP > no dismantling required

 

[OsramMyers]

The Hager was installed a few years ago when we had AC installed. The consumer box to the garage is the larger SWA. He could not terminate into the Hager hence the plastic box. It does look like there is an earth wire from the gland.

 

[OsramMyers]

At the other in the garage there is an earth wire coming off the gland. I cant see if the steel wire is connected to the gland but you would assume it is. I isolated the electrics before taking this photos.

 

[OsramMyers]

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The armour of that SWA appears to be earthed.

 

[brianmoooore]

Blue crimp on 4mm2? PVC insulating tape on joints? Equipment in DNO box?

 

[OsramMyers]

Blue crimp on 4mm2? PVC insulating tape on joints? Equipment in DNO box?

It's not great is it? I paid £875 for this installation too. There was a bit of fiddling around in the garage too connecting the sockets and lighting circuit . He was here for 5 hours on the first visit then 2 hours replacing cable to SWA, I was expecting a thorough 2 days for that price. He is a definite NAPIT registered electrician. He had such a well-organised van as well! I had high hopes. He gives NAPIT a bad name, goes without saying he will not be used again by me nor recommended.

 

[westward10]

It is rough but the armour would appear to be earthed. That adaptable box in the meter cupboard could have been mounted externally butted up to the cupboard with the swa into the bottom. Who connected up the garage consumer unit as those cpcs look pretty rough and as above that blue crimp is not suitable for 4.0.

 

[OsramMyers]

It is rough but the armour would appear to be earthed. That adaptable box in the meter cupboard could have been mounted externally butted up to the cupboard with the swa into the bottom. Who connected up the garage consumer unit as those cpcs look pretty rough.

I did not want that plastic box on the wall, this meter is right next door my front door I told him to put that in the meter box. He said it was too difficult to terminate straight into that Hager. Either that or he couldn't be bothered.

 

[westward10]

I did not want that plastic box on the wall, this meter is right next door my front door I told him to put that in the meter box. He said it was too difficult to terminate straight into that Hager. Either that or he couldn't be bothered.

It would not have been easy to get the swa into the Hager board and without physically being there it is difficult to judge. If it were me doing the job the box would have been external to the cabinet whether the client liked it or not.

 

[timhoward]

It's earthed both ends. The garage end is metal box and has earthing nut. The source end is a bit rough.
But if he was told he can't put the box on the wall I have more sympathy.
I agree with him that I wouldn't want to be getting the SWA into the existing Hager - the bottom face is the only option and it looks too busy.

 

[hasel5]

Bit rough and agree on the blue lug also
But seen a lot worse TBH £875 seem a bit steep but not overly

 

[hasel5]

Lack of labels as well

 

[Dustydazzler]

Standard builders wiring

it’s ok as it’s a tough cable so all gravy

 

[MJPD29]

It's rough but I've seen a lot worse. More untidy than anything.