Part P Domestic installer

[hpttranter]

I have worked with a fully qualified electrician for roughly 16 months. I no longer work with him but I would love to work for myself.
I have looked up a Part P domestic installer course provided by Delta Electrical Training. Is this to right course for me to get started.?????
Will it give me enough to get started??

Howard

 

[telectrix]

maybe, maybe not. do you have any quals.? and do you consider that your practical experience is enough to be competent in installation?

 

[hpttranter]

I have no quals yet. I feel that with some formal training I could be competent.

 

[telectrix]

my best advice would be to get employment as a mate and do 2330 and 2382 at college evenings. afaik, it's 2 evenings a week and the cost is considerably less than the fast track courses, but at the end of the day, it's your choice. be careful and do some research before parting with wads of cash on 5 week courses.

 

[Plonker 3]

The only sort of training that will help you become competent is to work alongside a proper time served electrician, not some expensive short 1 day course.

I would recommend phoning round local companies and see if they will take you on, on a proper recognized apprenticeship.

 

[Dave 85]

He has already worked alongside a proper electrician!
If it was me in your situation, with the experience I had after 16 months as a mate I would have done a domestic installer course, the 17th edition and then applied to be registered with Elecsa.

This is not what I actually did, I did 2330 for 3 years (with distinctions in 90% of exams/assessments) at night college and it was more or less a waste of time. It has very little relevance to what you would need to know as a domestic installer.

In my opinion, 16 months expereince, for somone with half a brain who is keen to learn is adequate to do work on your own. You would still of course, be learning on the job after registration, as we all are and always will be, but what qualifiactions you do would not make a huge difference, if any, as to how competent a domestic installer you are.

Lots of people will tell you to spend the next year vainly trying to get on an apprenticeship (which is very hard these days) and the following 4/5 years being paid minumum wage before starting out on your own with no money at the age of god knows what, because thats what they did so thats the only way anyone else should do it. If you actually want to start earning a decent living as a self employed domestic installer in the next 10 years this advice probably wont get you very far.

 

[JD6400]

He has already worked alongside a proper electrician!
If it was me in your situation, with the experience I had after 16 months as a mate I would have done a domestic installer course, the 17th edition and then applied to be registered with Elecsa.

This is not what I actually did, I did 2330 for 3 years at night college and it was more or less a waste of time.

In my opinion, 16 months experience, for somone with half a brain who is keen to learn is adequate to work on your own. You would still of course, be learning on the job after registration, as we all are and always will be, but what qualifiactions you do would not make a huge difference, if any, as to how competent a domestic installer you are.

Sorry Dave , but 16 months in my experience is way too short , more like 5 years for all but one of the apprentice's / re trainees that i have ever come across !

 

[telectrix]

too true. you either got it or you don't. some so called sparks may have reams of paper quals., yet never be competent as long as they have a hole to fart through. i go by the 3 C's. confidence, competence, and capability. if you got all 3, then go for it.

 

[Dave 85]

Sorry Dave , but 16 months in my experience is way too short , more like 5 years for all but one of the apprentice's / re trainees that i have ever come across !

I knew a guy who was useless after 4 years. I myself, and you must forgive my modesty, was working on my own after 6 months experience and was certainly perfectly competent after 16 months experience. As tel said, it all depends on the person. Determination, ability to learn and common sense will get you a long way in life. People without these attributes will never recognise the benefit they give.

 

[Guitarist]

We get loads of people on here who have gone out on their own after a few months as a "mate". They may be damn fast at house-bashing, but just look at how many "electricians" we get on here with no proper apprenticeship who ask questions about things like testing an immersion heater. Determination is one thing, but imo every sparky should have the technical knowledge to understand the "how" and "why", rather than just doing a job because that's the way they have done with an electrician for the last year or so.
You will always get highly qualified people who are useless, but that doesn't make it ok to ignore a proper apprenticeship, just because you won't be earning right away.

 

[JD6400]

I knew a guy who was useless after 4 years. I myself, and you must forgive my modesty, was working on my own after 6 months experience and was certainly perfectly competent after 16 months experience. As tel said, it all depends on the person. Determination, ability to learn and common sense will get you a long way in life. People without these attributes will never recognise the benefit they give.

Granted I have known time served men with 20 + years under their belt who i would not even trust to pee on the fire which they probably have just started !

But , I speak from experience here when i say that in all of the near on 30 or so people i have been involved in either training or giving a start in the industry , only one would have been ready to safely go on their own before the 5 year mark and more than one would probably never be able to safely do the job completely on their own with absolutely no input from someone to guide them !

I am obviously not just talking about house bashing here but being a a electrician as a whole .

Some are naturally gifted , but if they have never experienced a particular situation or fault , or even something similar before , they may well blunder in to a serious problem that only experience gained from others could have prevented .

 

[Dave 85]

We get loads of people on here who have gone out on their own after a few months as a "mate". They may be damn fast at house-bashing, but just look at how many "electricians" we get on here with no proper apprenticeship who ask questions about things like testing an immersion heater. Determination is one thing, but imo every sparky should have the technical knowledge to understand the "how" and "why", rather than just doing a job because that's the way they have done with an electrician for the last year or so.
You will always get highly qualified people who are useless, but that doesn't make it ok to ignore a proper apprenticeship, just because you won't be earning right away.

The fact is, and people arn't gonna like this, that nowadays because we have things like satnavs, the internet and smart phones people can fulfill roles with less knowledge and experience than they would have been able to 10 or 20 years ago. A guy with no sense of direction can be a perefectly good delivery driver these days. In the same way a guy with limited expereince can be a decent electrician, on the occasions he comes across a situation that he is not sure how to tackle, he can whip out his Iphone and within 5 minutes have a wealth of highly experienced experts on hand to advise him. Oh I know..."Its not fair, its not right and thats not how it should be" but the fact is, that is how it IS and anyone with any sense can see it.

Ok so some people who try to rush into being self employed may be so hapless that they fail very quickely, but thats life they probabaly fail at a lot of things and it will most likely result in them not making any money and ****ing a few people off. The chances of someone being killed as a result of this lack of knowledge are very slim in my opinion and if they are the culprit will no doubt be brought to justice.

 

[Dave 85]

Granted I have known time served men with 20 + years under their belt who i would not even trust to pee on the fire which they probably have just started !

But , I speak from experience here when i say that in all of the near on 30 or so people i have been involved in either training or giving a start in the industry , only one would have been ready to safely go on their own before the 5 year mark and more than one would probably never be able to safely do the job completely on their own with absolutely no input from someone to guide them !

I am obviously not just talking about house bashing here but being a a electrician as a whole .

Some are naturally gifted , but if they have never experienced a particular situation or fault , or even something similar before , they may well blunder in to a serious problem that only experience gained from others could have prevented .

The title of this thread is 'Part P domestic installer' not 'electrician who can do absolutely anything from house bashing to highly complex industrial maintenance'. The fact is someone who has done 4 and a half years of house bashing and is still not capable of doing house bashing has got to be an idiot if you ask me. I was running my own business after 2-3 years of experience, have built up a wealth of satisfied customers over the last 3 years and have never had any problems which would lead me to jeopradize somones safety.

 

[JD6400]

Dave , fair play to you !
Maybe our paths will cross one day as we get down around your area now and then ?

Like i say there are exceptions , but even with house bashing unless you are on a new build estate you will still get the odd issue that can easily get out of hand if you have not got the back ground knowledge to recognise the problem in the first place !

Maybe it is because you are setting " the bar " to your ability's , and that is why you believe the average person should be able to competently and safely do the job on their own with no guidance in such a short time , but i have yet to find anyone capable of doing so .

I agree , with modern technology it is possible to find just about any answers you will ever need , but it is the ability to know that a problem is looming that needs urgent attention that will sometimes be lacking without the experience to back it up .

 

[Guitarist]

Dave, we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Personally, I don't think anyone should be working with electrics in somebody's home unless they have carried out an apprenticeship, along with gaining qualifications.
I have been in this "game" for over 20 years and seen all levels of work. Of course, some people gain competency much faster than others, but I hate this modern attitude that "it's just how it is", and "you can find that out on the internet".
I am impressed that you were able to work on your own after only 6 months experience. You are obviously very clever and competent, but I think that you are the exception.

 

[Dave 85]

You both make good points. There is no doubt that good experience is absolutely key to competence, but I have known 4 people, including myself, to start electrical firms in their early 20's after less than 5 years experience and only 1 of them I would consider incompetent in terms of understanding electrical safety and regulations, but he will almost certainly still be fairly incompetent in 20 years time.
The point I was making to the OP is that experience is what makes a competent domestic installer not the 2330. I felt for the entire duration of the course and have done ever since that it was entirely wasted on and unsuitable for a domestic electrician. I would not recommend spending months on end learning about power factor correction and three phase motors to someone who plans to spend the rest of his days attacking houses with a hammer drill.
The ONLY usefull thing it taught me was testing and fault finding and this can be learnt on other shorter courses.

After 3 years of night college some of the guys on my course, who wern't working as electricians, would not have had a clue how to do a junction box or wire a kitchen.

Of course this is my experience of one college and one set of not entirely competent lecturers, Im sure other people have had varied experiences of training.

 

[johnboy6083]

i completely disagree with your comment that your 2330 was wasted. It wasnt. If your firm hoes through hard times, then there is nothing staopping you working for another firm or through an agency, til things pick up, and beleive me, ive met lots of sparks who have had their own firms ect who have ended up on agency jobs/contracting sparks. You may not need the 3ph technical knowledge now, but it may come in useful later. Evem if you dont have the practical experience of doing it, you will atleast have the technical knowldege to be able to work it out, or know what your looking at.
Its a very diverse trade we're in, and its better tobe versatile than to restrict yourself to one area of it.

 

[JD6400]

Was that by any chance a college very , very close to where you live ?
Because if it is the one i think it is , you are lucky to be able write your name correctly after going to that one let alone learn a trade , so all the more credit to you for becoming a successful sparks now if that was the start you had !!!!!

To be honest , and i speak for our company now , we have yet to find a college worth a ---- and more importantly a tutor that could be trusted to even connect a 13a plug top up without the need to check it was correct !

This was not always the case ! I believe the change in policy from teaching , over to just getting in as many students and creaming what you can , came about 10 - 15 years ago .

I have had more than one experience with them to make me feel this way and i am surly not alone !?

 

[Guitarist]

I have to agree that College is only a small part of the equation. Of course, we learn about heavy current applications, electronics, how to work out rms currents using integration and differentiation, but that is just the "understanding" part. The application is what happens during the actual apprenticeship, the hours you spend doing something that you think is awesome, only to have the experienced guy clip you around the ear because you missed something obvious. You will always get people who can wire a lighting circuit simply because they've read about it or watched a video on youtube, but that doesn't make them good electricians.