Discuss PAT Tester broken but i can use megger? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

chris day

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Hello guys

my seaward PAT tester has given up the ghost, i have some small PAT jobs coming up and was thinking short term of being able to just use my multi function meter.

R2 test on class 1 equipment using low voltage ohm meter
Insulation resistance testing with leads

Trying to think what other limitations i have by just using my multi function test instrument?
 
T

The Ghost

I know I can use my Kewtech DL65 for PAT. But I have to switch it into PAT mode. Does the megger have that?
 

PEG

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I'm not certain what the current PAT testing consists of,but if the tests are possible using a calibrated MFT,i would assume it was OK.

There are earth continuity,polarity and IR tests,so an MFT would cover these. It is not a statutory requirement,so as long as any certification you provide,matches the testing you have done,all is well.

I was told.a long time ago,that you could offer PAT testing,as a purely visual only examination,providing the certification,stated this. Obviously,this does not example due diligence,too thoroughly,but would be legal.
 
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DPG

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OP - do the items you are checking actually need any testing? Most small appliances these days are class II and may only need inspection. Remember, the phrase 'PAT Testing' is misleading.

Also bear in mind the HSE guidance on the inspection/testing of equipment in low risk environments - there is a document available.

A lot of people are surprised about how little actual testing is needed.
 

mhar

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As Westward 10 saysyou will miss the high current earth bond test, you will spend ages pratting about trying to get good continuity.
There are frequently Seaward Supernova Plus's for sale on ebay for ridiculous money, I bought another the other day for £25.22 delivered. Cracking tester if a bit chunky
 

DPG

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If it's only a short term fix he may not need the high current earth bond test.
 

oracle

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Many handheld PAT testers only produce 200mA “Soft” earth bond current. BTW, Portable Appliance Tester refers to the test meter being portable not the appliances ranging from handheld to fixed!
 

DPG

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Many handheld PAT testers only produce 200mA “Soft” earth bond current. BTW, Portable Appliance Tester refers to the test meter being portable not the appliances ranging from handheld to fixed!
To be accurate, PAT is a non existent phrase. The correct terminology is ISITEE.

Portable is irrelevant as you say.
 

Pete999

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I find the abbreviation ISITEE mildly irritating :)
Why is that Westy, I find PAT Testing very irritable Testing twice, Portable Appliance Testing, Testing, almost as bad as "I Megered the install", when we all should know Megger is a Trade name NOT a test procedure.
 

Pete999

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I find abbreviations irritating in general but the appearance of ISITEE is particularly annoying.
Yeah know what you mean Mate, unfortunately that's what we are given to work with, annoying for those who know the difference.
 

DPG

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I know what you mean westy, but it's got to be better than PAT testing. That phrase perpetuates the myth that it is only portable appliances, and that is only about testing - when we all know that inspection is the big part of it.
 

telectrix

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i find it extremely annoying coz i never can get the "I"s , "T"'s, and "E"s in the right order. all the right letters, but.......
 
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Pete999

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I know what you mean westy, but it's got to be better than PAT testing. That phrase perpetuates the myth that it is only portable appliances, and that is only about testing - when we all know that inspection is the big part of it.
Yeah very good point, When I worked for the DOE/PSA we had a testing regime, "Testing Power consuming Apparatus" all those years ago and someone got it right.
 

DPG

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i find it extremely annoying coz i never can get the "I"s , "T"'s, and "E"s in the right order. all the right letters, but.......
I'll be honest tel, I had a quick peek at the COP to make sure I got it right!
 

Lucien Nunes

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How will you be measuring differential leakage and touch leakage?
 
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Lucien Nunes

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But the PAT120 does offer a substitute leakage test, which can't be replicated using an MFT. I wouldn't claim to have completed a PAT without at least some type of leakage test. Maybe I'm old-fashioned.
 

R-fur

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I thought PAT testers were introduced so that semi-skilled guys could test appliances rather than using an electrician. The testers have a lot of nice extras and can make recording the results easier. But any decent electrician with a insulation and continuity tester plus a note book can test appliances.
 

DPG

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I thought PAT testers were introduced so that semi-skilled guys could test appliances rather than using an electrician. The testers have a lot of nice extras and can make recording the results easier. But any decent electrician with a insulation and continuity tester plus a note book can test appliances.
Except for leakage tests as mentioned by Lucien.
 

oracle

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Well, the only tests required on the certificate are continuity of the earth bond / CPC, Continuity of line and neutral (linked) and Insulation Resistance between all conductors. If you must, leakage current can be measured across the appliance insulation using the insulation tester. Touch current measurements are not at all clear in the code of practice and are unusual tests in normal circumstances anyway.
 

Simon47

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I'd been thinking about making an adapter a bit like that - but with an extra socket for an earth continuity lead and a switch. Idea being that the switch would take care of the different connections needed - so the MFT could stay connected, the extra lead connected to exposed conductive parts for Class I continuity & Class II IR test, and only the switch would need to be moved (plus the mode switch on the MFT).
Otherwise, yes an MFT can be used, it's just a bit of a faff having to reconfigure the leads all the time for the different tests.
My biggest issue would be with the 200mA continuity test. 25A will prove the cpc far more effectively (or nuke it if it's hanging on by a strand or two).
How many battery powered PA testers do that ? At my last job (in IT), the boss thought it might be a good idea to get a tester and offer it as a service to customers. My response was that I wasn't going to be the only person "qualified" to do it, and no-one else actually bothered. I borrowed it and used it for my own requirements more than it got used at work (I'd test stuff that came across my desk) ;) Anyway, the spec for it wasn't for much current - only something like 200mA IIRC.
 

oracle

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I'd been thinking about making an adapter a bit like that - but with an extra socket for an earth continuity lead and a switch. Idea being that the switch would take care of the different connections needed - so the MFT could stay connected, the extra lead connected to exposed conductive parts for Class I continuity & Class II IR test, and only the switch would need to be moved (plus the mode switch on the MFT).
Otherwise, yes an MFT can be used, it's just a bit of a faff having to reconfigure the leads all the time for the different tests.

How many battery powered PA testers do that ? At my last job (in IT), the boss thought it might be a good idea to get a tester and offer it as a service to customers. My response was that I wasn't going to be the only person "qualified" to do it, and no-one else actually bothered. I borrowed it and used it for my own requirements more than it got used at work (I'd test stuff that came across my desk) ;) Anyway, the spec for it wasn't for much current - only something like 200mA IIRC.
If 200 mA is good enough for installation continuity testing, why not not for appliances?
 

Risteard

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If 200 mA is good enough for installation continuity testing, why not not for appliances?
The flex in an appliance would typically take more abuse than fixed wiring embedded in the walls or in a conduit/trunking to be fair. It's not really a like comparison. Although traditionally conduit joints would have been tested at these higher currents.
 

Pete999

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I'd been thinking about making an adapter a bit like that - but with an extra socket for an earth continuity lead and a switch. Idea being that the switch would take care of the different connections needed - so the MFT could stay connected, the extra lead connected to exposed conductive parts for Class I continuity & Class II IR test, and only the switch would need to be moved (plus the mode switch on the MFT).
Otherwise, yes an MFT can be used, it's just a bit of a faff having to reconfigure the leads all the time for the different tests.

How many battery powered PA testers do that ? At my last job (in IT), the boss thought it might be a good idea to get a tester and offer it as a service to customers. My response was that I wasn't going to be the only person "qualified" to do it, and no-one else actually bothered. I borrowed it and used it for my own requirements more than it got used at work (I'd test stuff that came across my desk) ;) Anyway, the spec for it wasn't for much current - only something like 200mA IIRC.
You don't need to be qualified to carry out ISITEE.
 

Simon47

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Technically no you don't need any qualifications. But you do need to be competent, and more importantly, you and your employer need some means of showing that.
In practice, the training (provided as part of the package with the tester) was a 20 minute DVD and a multi-choice test paper. But it does mean I have another "magic piece of paper" ;)
 

pirate

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I have that magic piece of paper!
Microsoft Publisher, and i can get you one too!
My training actually consisted of a full day, hands- on, plus presentation, plus course manual. It's not exactly rocket science, I know.
The tester I use is a simple Pass/Fail, no bluetooth download, no fancy email reporting, but it can be used battery power or mains.
However, it is only used for landlord testing. Proper electricians like you lot will likely not be impressed!
ISITEE does sound itchy, though...but far preferable to Portable Appliance Testing testing...
but then, why is abbreviation such a long word?
Why doesn't the all-purpose glue stick to the tube?
Why is there only one Monopolies Commission?

Whatever, I just meant that I have no "qualifications", but I am deemed competent, and I actually believe I am competent to do this simple work. However, if anomalies show up, I seek advice, and don't just sticker everything. I do actually test, and do FVI, and as it is an occasional thing for me, I quite enjoy it. If I had to do it every day I would go mad...
 

DPG

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And that's the thing - being competent. Understanding what the tester is doing and what the results mean.

The problem is when you test something and the tester says Pass, but it hasn't actually tested anything. Figure 8 mains cables come to mind.
 

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