Really Need Some advise Urgently

[crazygraham]

Hello Everyone I really need everyone’s help here Reallydo,

I have had a 6KW installation done the other day and it has went horriblywrong, It really has had me very depressed for the last few days now and I needto speak about it to people who might be able to help me,

the system is 2 SMA-3000TL inverters
24 Sharp 250 panels

12 west and 12 east, 3Kw on the front and 3Kw on the back,

when the 1st inverter came out of his van I noticed that it was in an sma2000box he said that the other box had got wet so he just use that box to transportit, the second thing was that the inverter was yellow and was branded Wagner& Co he has said that it is an SMA inverter and is just the same thinghowever it’s still branded as a Wagner & Co not SMA is there any differenceshould I be looking that the SMA inverter is installed ?

Then I also noticed that the cable entry points had been used before and I startedto think that this was not new I asked him straight up about it and he insuredthat he had just received it a few days ago so again I could not say any differentas I had nothing to go on

Now during the installation of the inverters I had to stop them as they hadused 3 sheets of loft chipboard to mount them on but these had not been leveledand where just thrown up the top board was 240mm off to the right and the 2under it were not inline either nor where the groves clicked in rite, and theinverters where not spaced out and unlevel so I had to express the importanceof a tidy and neat installation, however after this I have to say it was donevery neat and tidy however after closer inspection the isolators ore notscrewed down tight to the back board and only one screw holding them on.

when the inverters where 1st switched on I was up within 5 min's and noticedthat the one that I had already thought was not new was reading 606Kwh's When Iquestioned him on this he said that he had just run a simulation on the unitand I responded with that great could you show me how you done it on the otherone he off course changed the subject so I asked a further twice to still gethim to change the subject on both times .so I just left it as I did not reallyhave the information I needed.

The 2nd inverter was reading zero however it has a faulty screen on it and canhardly be read at all.

They could not set up the sunny-beam for me they were only able to connect toone unit at a time and left it saying that they needed a Bluetooth repeater forthem to talk together. I have now commissioned the sunny beam myself after aquick read through the installation guide.

Now I don’t know about this, but they have connected the system into a spare32mcb that is protected with a 30ma rcd now I think I read somewhere that thisis not advised as it can stop the rcd working I don’t know but I bet one of youguys will.

Now I wish that this was the only things that is not right but the worse has tobe that the panels that are on the front of my house do not seem to beinstalled to a great standard they do not line up rite and are sitting of theroof about 150mm from the get go I had said that they where to high but he justkept doing his own thing they did not level the rails at all and the panels arereally bad looking you can clearly see under them and see cables hangingeverywhere now after I had put my foot down he said that he would fix it butthen took his scaffolding down and packed it up so I asked about the work at thefront that he was going to do to fix them he told me the plan he had to use a differentbracket would not work as it was too wide for my tiles. I said that that wasnot good enough and he told me if I can get the brackets trimmed down that hewould fix it the next day so I done just that as I really could not have leftthem the way they were as it is the front of the house.
So the next day came and everything was great he changed the 6 front bracketsbut still did not fix the level problems in fact he has just left it with therails bent and the panels sitting even worse and he refused to adjust the otherbrackets to make the array sit level and neat. there were a few words exchangedwhen he was ready to leave as he off course wanted full payment so we made anagreement that I would hold £500 until he came back to level the panels now theother thing was he said it would be 8 weeks b4 he could get back I was nothappy but was so fed up with everything I just let it go. Now I have to do a transfereeon Monday for him but I think that once he gets it I will never see him againand that he might try and mess with the grant money that I am ament go get.

Later that night I was installing the pc software for the system when I got loggedinto the unit that I had suspected as being second hand I could indeed see thatit had been installed on the 19-7-2012 until a few days b4 my installation andthat there was a total of 606Kwh on it was able to read the production foreveryday so conclusive evidence to prove that this is not new,

I have now sent an email with the data that was on the unit to him expressinghow I am feeling about this, I also think that holding all money as he has beenlying to me from the start and I’m guessing will carry on the same way,
I have been depressed from all this and has really ruined the hole system forme as this is the kind of thing I would be looking at all day paying a lot of interestto it but I can’t even really stand to look at it other to see that its set uprite and working as if he has made this many error's he may have done somethingthat is stopping the system working to its full pontenitional peak performance.

I don’t really know where I stand I was thinking a contract for the works to becompleted and the inverters replaced drawn up by a solicitor,

what would youthink is the best thing for me to do here it really has me in a bad way thanksguys for taking the time to try and help me out

 

[Gavin A]

where in the country are you?

You're right, the inverter is a used unit that's been swapped from another job.

Wagner do offer yellow rebranded SMA inverters, so this in itself shouldn't be an issue.

Rail levelling is basic stuff that makes the difference between an installation looking bad, and a professional looking installation.

 

[steve Leese]

sounds like a realy bad install, don`t pay any money untill you are completely satisfied with the job, that way you hold all the aces.

 

[crazygraham]

I am in bangor Northern ireland mate,

The other thing that i have seen happen twice today is that the inverter drops out it done it twice today each time for about 15mins

do you think that i should get someone else to inspect it and give me details of what has been done wrong ?

everytime i told them that the panels where not level i got told that my roof is not level ? but surely that is what the adjustment is for on the brackets

what do you think i should do here i really dont know thanks for the help

 

[steve Leese]

Your contract (if you have one ) has already been broken by the installer by way of the secound hand inverter so pay for an independant inspection of your system, when you have the results you can go back to the installer and ask him to rectify the points of the report.
I`m sure there are reputable installers in your area.

 

[crazygraham]

Well yeah I guess that the contract is now null and void so I think that I shall remind him of that.

I do want to get an inspection done on the full system 2 see what all has been not done rite I also know that he has broke many of my tiles.

Would any one be able to recommend anyone in the Belfast area?

The way he has left me feeling I think I would also be happy for him to give me my depiset back and for him to take his equipment away

 

[Eco Deal]

spend the 500 on sorting the system do not give it the installer!

was he cheapest quote ?

 

[crazygraham]

I have held over 6000 on him at the moment he is expecting a bank transfare tomorrow.

He was the cheapest quote and now I know why

 

[moggy1968]

I think the inverter should tell you how long it has been operating for. Can't remember but have a look in the manual (that he should have left!)

On the side of the inverter is a data sticker with the serial number on. I think the model of inverter is also on here.
Also, switch the system off, then back on again and time how long the inverters take to fire up, if it's shorter than 2 minutes they haven't been set up for the UK.

It is a requirement (of the DTi Guide I think, but certainly one of the sets of regs) that cables are tied up so they don't chafe, also they should be protected on entry into the roof and the roof waterproofing should not be compromised, i.e. by making a hole in the felt.

It is usually for the system to sit off the roof a bit to allow airflow behind the panels, photos would help.

NO you can't share an RCD with other items.

just read as far as the bit about the inverter hours, yep, thats a sdecond hand one alright!!

He is not allowed to withold certification pending payment. Contact MCS and REAL if he does for advice on what to do.
If he does and you suffer financial loss as a result he could be liable for your losses, make sure he knows that!

Finally, speak to trading standards and citizens advice as soon as possible.

post as many photos on here as you can, you can then use the comments of other installers on here as evidence.

 

[crazygraham]

Hi moggy thanks for that information i think a call to mcs will be needed as he has told me that he will not be giving me any paper work untill he has payment in full.
I rember seeing the total hours run i must look again noe and see what its is .
and again he has shared the rch so i guess that will have to be changed.
its abit dark now but i will get photos tomorrow when i get home from work and post them up for sure to see what has to be said. It really has just turned into a nightmare i have been busting to get these done for ages and now the thought of it makes me feel sick to the bone.

 

[Gavin A]

I think that legally you probably have to give them chance to put right the issues before you can with hold the money and / or pay another company.

This is also part of the REAL code, so you're supposed to only go to them after you've failed to get satisfaction from the companies complaints process.

I'd write a clear list of issues that you want addressed before payment can be made, then email it to the company and ask that this be dealt with as a complaint under their official complaints process, and advise that you will be withholding payment until this is rectified. I do think you're probably on dodgy ground withholding the entire amount though, as they have delivered the bulk of the contract - it's fairly standard practice in these situations to pay most of it and with hold eg 10% or maybe the equivalent of what it'd be likely to cost to get someone else to rectify the problems, so I'd think £1000 max.

WIth holding it all could well cause cash flow issues for the company which could make things more difficult for them with other jobs etc that then might actually delay them being able to get your system sorted, as well as wasting your and their time with lots of arguments over the rights and wrongs of the situation.

 

[moggy1968]

just the inverters worth the grand. I reckon you gotta be looking at a holdback of 2k

 

[Gavin A]

I'd forgotten about the inverter.

btw, It might be worth double checking with SMA and maybe the police that the inverter hasn't been reported stolen, ie via the serial number. There was someone a while back going around offering cheap inverters of dubious provenance up here.

 

[whinmoor]

Me thinks the team is gonna have a field-day looking at these snaps tomorrow.

It sounds like a pretty sloppy installation with duff equipment and a shocking attitude.

However, I agree that you should pay some of the outstanding amount as you do have some costly kit. But, I think it's fair to retain a couple of grand until you are satisfied with the job and have the paperwork.

 

[sedgy34]

What's this company called? You could check with your local trading standards just to see if there is any more complaints about these guys

 

[Rockingit]

Personally, I would NOT pay anything today, write up a list of your concerns and put to the installer, tell him that you will pay him 50% of balance on condition of his acceptance in writing to correct the errors with a 50% retainer for a further week after his claimed correction. If he disputes your concerns then tell him you are witholding all monies until you have had an independent inspection done.

 

[Dave-geo]

Are the inverters still installed on loft chipboard? Is that ok? Thought it needed to be a fireproof backboard?

 

[Somecamel]

Reagrds to the inverters cutting out for 15 mins at a time, possibly an over voltage problem? Are you in the sticks or a built up area?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Personally, I would NOT pay anything today, write up a list of your concerns and put to the installer, tell him that you will pay him 50% of balance on condition of his acceptance in writing to correct the errors with a 50% retainer for a further week after his claimed correction. If he disputes your concerns then tell him you are witholding all monies until you have had an independent inspection done.

Thats more like it. Sounds an awful awful job. Don't be bullied into anything at the moment you hold the cards (cash). Gut tells me if you cough up you'll never see them again!!!

 

[Rockingit]

Gut tells me if you cough up you'll never see them again!!!

Me too!!