replaced rewirable board with RCD,circuits tripping

[mot]

Hi there,

I've just replaced an old rewirable fuseboard with a more up to date split-load RCD protected model.

As it is now,all the circuits are on the RCD,but the cooker circuit and one of the ring circuits in the house are tripping it-all the other circuits are fine.

Double-checked my work and it is all pukka.

Any ideas about what could be causing these 2 circuits to be tripping the RCD?

Am I OK to place these circuits on the non-RCD side of the board temporarily?They've been functioning for years on the old rewirable circuit breakers with no problems...

Any help much appreciated.

 

[monkeyelectric]

Hi there,

I've just replaced an old rewirable fuseboard with a more up to date split-load RCD protected model.

As it is now,all the circuits are on the RCD,but the cooker circuit and one of the ring circuits in the house are tripping it-all the other circuits are fine.

Double-checked my work and it is all pukka.

Any ideas about what could be causing these 2 circuits to be tripping the RCD?

Am I OK to place these circuits on the non-RCD side of the board temporarily?They've been functioning for years on the old rewirable circuit breakers with no problems...

Any help much appreciated.

Do they still trip with everything unplugged and the cooker isolated? i would rectify the fault rather than just overide it, there must be a fault somewhere. The other thing it could be is borrowed neutral but this is more common to lighting circuits

 

[maddog]

I take it you've done an insulation test on the faulty circuits. Dont mean to offend by dont know your level of experience.

 

[mot]

No,the cooker ciruit only trips the RCD when the cooker switch is on.The ring circuit trips as soon as the breaker is open

I take it you've done an insulation test on the faulty circuits. Dont mean to offend by dont know your level of experience.

No,I haven't...I'm about 3 years in as a sparks(C&G only,mostly sitework)-don't have my own insulation testers,though.I'll borrow my mates fluke multifunction,and check it out.I don't want to leave it as is.

 

[monkeyelectric]

No,the cooker ciruit only trips the RCD when the cooker switch is on.The ring circuit trips as soon as the breaker is open


No,I haven't...I'm about 3 years in as a sparks(C&G only,mostly sitework)-don't have my own insulation testers,though.I'll borrow my mates fluke multifunction,and check it out.I don't want to leave it as is.

Don't mean to offend but how do you know your work is pukka if you have'nt got a tester? there's probably a fault within the cooker if thats the case, and if you do an insulation test on the ring it'll probably show up the problem.
Did you notify LABC before you done the work and have they been out to look at it?

 

[mot]

Pukka in terms of connections being properly made,tightened up,no copper showing,cables routed in a neat and tidy way etc.

I take your point,though.

I haven't notified the LABC.

Is that something that I can do retrospectively?

 

[patricklondon]

depends on them they do vary some will insist that they inspect before and after so that they can see the site before any work is done so they can see the changes made. otherwise you will have to pay someone else indepedantly to do a pir

 

[mot]

depends on them they do vary some will insist that they inspect before and after so that they can see the site before any work is done so they can see the changes made. otherwise you will have to pay someone else indepedantly to do a pir

Thanks for that.I'll give them a call and see what they say.

I just read somewhere that they charge £350 to come out.

If I did Part P for £800 could I do that myself?

What's a pir?

 

[Yooj]

PIR - Periodic Inspection Report

In terms of doing Part P yourself...I guess theoretically yes...however, to get Part P you will need to be assessed, have suitable test equipment all calibrated, have insurance, etc (amognst other requirments)...And it will all need to be in place within 30 days, as that is the time limit for a job done by a member of a competent person scheme (part P registered) needs to be notified by.

Yooj

 

[mot]

PIR - Periodic Inspection Report

In terms of doing Part P yourself...I guess theoretically yes...however, to get Part P you will need to be assessed, have suitable test equipment all calibrated, have insurance, etc (amognst other requirments)...And it will all need to be in place within 30 days, as that is the time limit for a job done by a member of a competent person scheme (part P registered) needs to be notified by.

Yooj

Sounds like a bit of work.Might be possible at a pinch.

Would assessment comprise part of a Part P course?

Any recommendations for Part P courses?(I'm London-based).

 

[patricklondon]

again it depends on your borough but ive heard from £100 upwards on here. save your pennies and buy your own test kit and do your 17th. better employability and your nearer to becoming independant

 

[mot]

again it depends on your borough but ive heard from £100 upwards on here. save your pennies and buy your own test kit and do your 17th. better employability and your nearer to becoming independant

Done my 17th earlier in the year,and some testers are in the post(gone for an old ebay Robin multifunction).

What do you think about getting Part P?Any ideas about courses/places in London that run it?


Top quote btw.

 

[Yooj]

Before doing any 'Part P' course, I would take a look at the Elecsa/NICEIC/NAPIT websites about the requirements for getting registered with one of them under their Part P Competent Persons Schemes....You may well decide that you do not need to do a Part P course, since these courses only prepare you for doing your assessement within one of the scheme providers rather than get you assessed...therefore you would be paying £800 for a course and £450 - £600 for assessment/registration...So do an evenings research. (I have put many hundreds of words down on this forum as have lots of others on here regarding Part P...So do a bit of searching on here tonight and decide whether you actually need to spend more money on courses.

Then give each of the providers a call...they are all very helpful in terms of what you will need. You should then be able to make a balanced call...you might even use your CCU change for the assessment? (Assuming you sort out the tripping of course)

Yooj

 

[mot]

Before doing any 'Part P' course, I would take a look at the Elecsa/NICEIC/NAPIT websites about the requirements for getting registered with one of them under their Part P Competent Persons Schemes....You may well decide that you do not need to do a Part P course, since these courses only prepare you for doing your assessement within one of the scheme providers rather than get you assessed...therefore you would be paying £800 for a course and £450 - £600 for assessment/registration...So do an evenings research. (I have put many hundreds of words down on this forum as have lots of others on here regarding Part P...So do a bit of searching on here tonight and decide whether you actually need to spend more money on courses.

Then give each of the providers a call...they are all very helpful in terms of what you will need. You should then be able to make a balanced call...you might even use your CCU change for the assessment? (Assuming you sort out the tripping of course)

Yooj

Thanks for the sensible advice.I'm going to have a good look at all of that.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Don't bother with the part p courses I have just been through the same process. But I spent a grand on courses that I could have deferred to later. Elecsa are the only ones not looking for 12 months trading history, and they told me that you only NEED the 17th mandatory. Obviously they will be looking at other way in which you can be considered competent.

Having said that the Inspection and test 2932-20 is very useful if you have not been exposed to testing your own work and will give you confidence for the assessment day.

As to your original post. Why did you choose a split load board instead of an rcd?

The rcd boards are much more sensitive to faults. like nails through a cable somewhere, or breakdown of the insulation on the heating elements of cookers and irons. I make sure i do all my testing before I take out a cu. At that point you can say you have found problems to the customer, before he associates them with work that you have done. Although this approach has landed me in hot water with one customer ( see my other posts)

The registration process takes about 8 weeks, you will have to wait for an appointment for assessment. So book soon. Oh and talking of books they make buy certain books. On of which is the Memorandum of electricity at work 47. If you want you can but mine for a tenner. just dont take out of the packet. You can pass it on to the next person. All the other books are quite useful to have but this one just goes on about electrocuting poeple and the fact it should be generally avoided, which I think is quite obvious, especially to a spark.

Good luck Martin

 

[mot]

Don't bother with the part p courses I have just been through the same process. But I spent a grand on courses that I could have deferred to later. Elecsa are the only ones not looking for 12 months trading history, and they told me that you only NEED the 17th mandatory. Obviously they will be looking at other way in which you can be considered competent.

Having said that the Inspection and test 2932-20 is very useful if you have not been exposed to testing your own work and will give you confidence for the assessment day.

As to your original post. Why did you choose a split load board instead of an rcd?

The rcd boards are much more sensitive to faults. like nails through a cable somewhere, or breakdown of the insulation on the heating elements of cookers and irons. I make sure i do all my testing before I take out a cu. At that point you can say you have found problems to the customer, before he associates them with work that you have done. Although this approach has landed me in hot water with one customer ( see my other posts)

The registration process takes about 8 weeks, you will have to wait for an appointment for assessment. So book soon. Oh and talking of books they make buy certain books. On of which is the Memorandum of electricity at work 47. If you want you can but mine for a tenner. just dont take out of the packet. You can pass it on to the next person. All the other books are quite useful to have but this one just goes on about electrocuting poeple and the fact it should be generally avoided, which I think is quite obvious, especially to a spark.

Good luck Martin

Thanks for the reply,

I went with the split load board because they also want to run power to a shed in the garden,and I wanted to have the choice of RCD in either the house or shed,and figured I could use an RCD in a small shed CCU,and have the feed on the non-RCD side of the main board or just use the the RCD on the house CCU.

I'm still looking at the Part P posts on the forum-it seems that there's people that agree with you.My old boss was a sole trader(and good sparks 30 yrs+),and also not keen on the system.There should be one standard that is recognised by everyone,and that's all.Anything else makes life difficult for everyone!

I appreciate the tip-it makes a lot of sense.I'm doing this job as a favour for a friend,and there's not a lot of money involved,but I'm going to take that advice on board.

Are you talking about books for the 2391,or the Part P course?

 

[martinxxxxxx]

no i am talking about the assessment day. They give you a list of documents and books you must have. Most of the books are you prob will have. On site, the regs etc. The one i mentioned will not leave its cling film packet. I have it in pdf. But they will check you have it as a book to tick the box on the assessment day. All the cost add up when you are starting out.

 

[Sav]

Hi mate,
I dont mean to be rude, but maybe you should have got someone with a bit more expierence on the testing and inspecting side, to check out the installation first, before you carried out the consumer unit change. Thats the easy part !
Also have you got your 17th edition yet ? and have you got liability insurance GBP2million is whats required as far as i know and have.
My mate done the same thing as you a few months back. Again,same as you a circuit was tripping for some reason.
The owners took him to a small claims court in the end for not following the regs accordinglyor notifying the LABC and not being part p registered.

I dont know if anyone else agrees with me or if I am jumping the gun.
Best of luck mate, I am sure you will sort it out. My mate is a bit full of himself and is always getting into these kind of situations !!!!
Regards,
Sav

 

[m4tty]

Sav,

What happened to your mate, never heard of a Part P prosecution before and what was the outcome. Cheers

 

[Sav]

Hi,
he is now selling 2nd hand cars, as he says "being an electrician, takes too much studying and little rewards" !!!
I dont agree.
I found out that the reason he got taken to a small claims court was because that the new consumer units busbar consisted of 2 different busbars,he added a 2nd one due to messing up the original busbar, which were not tightened properly , arced and caught fire ( Is that possible ) ?. Fourtunately,the lady was home and smelt the burning under the stairs.
Her husbands friend or cousin etc was a solicitor and he/she advised them to take him to the small claims court for negligence etc etc.
He had liability insurance which I think covered him, but like I said he is now selling cars from home. I think its safer for everyone that he is not a sparks anymore !!!
I know that I am no super expierenced electrician like most of you, but I go by my dads moto ( retired builder ), work hard, study hard and have pride and comitment in your trade and you will eventually succeed.
I must admit, since being on this site and reading these threads and links etc, a lot of things have been made a lot clearer and understandable.
Keep up the good work guys,
Sav
P.S If anyone wants a car I can always give you his number !!!