Rolling stock?

[assegayer]

hi folks,

I just wanted to ask what actually is meant when people say industrial , commercial etc I definitely know what domestic is.. also i wanted to ask which one do you think is best to get in on because i have my city and guilds 2365 level 3 and 17th edition and rest of it (nvq working on it) ..iv seen apprenticeships for rolliing stock technicians and dual skilled technicians and they seem to be getting a lot more then the average domestic spark..

the reason i ask is that i dont want to be doing the same old twin and earth lighting sockets cooker and all that stuff no offence to anyone doing it..i want to deal with motors, transformers, pumps etc etc how would i get into that kind of thing? i am currently working at the moment

 

[Silly Sausage]

iv seen apprenticeships for rolliing stock technicians and dual skilled technicians and they seem to be getting a lot more then the average domestic spark..

how would i get into that kind of thing? i am currently working at the moment

Apply for every single one you see advertised for starters!

But, constructive criticism here, work on your spelling!!!!

 

[Pete999]

Walk don't run mate, it will come if you take your chances, I was a house basher, just retired been all over the world industrial commercial etc

 

[123]

Sounds like you want to be looking at industrial stuff then which factories, power stations, quarries etc etc. And there are no 5 week courses for that, so its not a race to the bottom

 

[7029 dave]

As Pete says, take it one step at an time.

 

[assegayer]

Thank you all for the replies...in no way am i looking for a 5 week wonder course i completed a trade apprenticeship hence why i am looking for a rolling stock 'apprenticeship' and just finding more information...if i did come across as running i didnt mean to,,

also what is commerical?
what is industrial?
for example what are the things it includes?

 

[rapparee]

Commercial work is shops, office blocks etc where as industrial is working in factories, garages, quarries etc.

 

[assegayer]

Commercial work is shops, office blocks etc where as industrial is working in factories, garages, quarries etc.

thanks for that and what sort of work does commerical and industrial include?

 

[Knobhead]

I can only speak for the industrial side:

Control systems
Distribution
Instrumentation
Fitting
Machining
Welding

It’s just too wide to cover in a single post. My job description ran in to 18 pages.

 

[assegayer]

I can only speak for the industrial side:

Control systems
Distribution
Instrumentation
Fitting
Machining
Welding

It’s just too wide to cover in a single post. My job description ran in to 18 pages.

dam all of that...i guess you have to do a whole lot of other additional courses?

welding??? is that even sparks job

 

[Knobhead]

welding??? is that even sparks job

Unless you’re going to use double sided sticky tape, yes.

Only about 40% of your time is electrical work. You have a plant to keep running, you do whatever is needed otherwise someone will be jumping up and down on you.

 

[rapparee]

thanks for that and what sort of work does commerical and industrial include?

Well i'm industrial. I work in a factory. We do the basic stuff like power and lighting, and then we would also be responsible for maintenance on plant and machinary. This is mostly identifing faults and then getting the machine/plant running. At times it can be dossy at other times it is high pressure depending on production demands.

 

[Sintra]

Believe it or not welding is a handy skill to have especially if you're installing heavy containment systems.

 

[snowhead]

Rolling Stock is Railways, carriages, wagons, etc.

Commercial as above; Offices, shops both small and Supermarkets, Banks etc.
Generally cleaner and lighter work (relatively speaking) compared to Industrial.

Commercial is probably more multi-skilled than Industrial.
The days of an Electrician disconnects a motor, a fitter removes and replaces it and the Electrician reconnects it are long gone except probably on very large sites.
I'm Commercial, the biggest motors I've replaced or worked on are 35kw.

Tony on his Industrial sites probably used them as door stops.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Believe it or not welding is a handy skill to have especially if you're installing heavy containment systems.

.. and if you have a 22 year old car.

 

[Knobhead]

Rolling Stock is Railways, carriages, wagons, etc.

Commercial as above; Offices, shops both small and Supermarkets, Banks etc.
Generally cleaner and lighter work (relatively speaking) compared to Industrial.

Commercial is probably more multi-skilled than Industrial.
The days of an Electrician disconnects a motor, a fitter removes and replaces it and the Electrician reconnects it are long gone except probably on very large sites.
I'm Commercial, the biggest motors I've replaced or worked on are 35kw.

Tony on his Industrial sites probably used them as door stops.

Motor changes really were rigmarole when demarcation ruled.

• I would test the motor, it’s got to be changed so I’d isolate back at the switchroom.
• Production issue the permit handing the plant over to me.
• I’d then disconnect the supply cable.
• I issue a permit to the fitters and apply their locks to the local isolator.
• The fitters would remove the holding down bolts and the coupling.
• The slingers and riggers would move the motor to the plant loading dock.
• The transport department would take the motor to stores.
• I go to stores and fill out all the paperwork for repair.
• I issue a requisition for a replacement motor (we had over 1000 on stock.)
• Transport delivers the motor to the plant.
• Slingers and riggers get the motor on to the bedplate.
• The fitters fit the coupling and align the drive before bolting down.
• I cancel the fitters permit.
• I removed the fitters locks from the local isolator.
• I connect the motor.
• I then make live from the switchroom and test run.
• I cancel my production permit and hand the plant back.

Probably a full day + overtime to change a 10HP motor which would now take 1½Hrs tops including the isolation and permits.

 

[PEG]

Also,if it is industrial work you are hankering after,you will not only have to get familiar with the function and installation,of such equipment,but get knowledgeable regarding its' use.

This may mean a longer,more protracted learning curve...

I have worked on plant,large and small,and have not got busy with anything,i cannot fully use myself. This has included directional drilling,MIG,TIG and MMa welding gear,de-watering plant,generation sets,stone processing plant etc.

For example,there is an extra layer of problems,when trying to fault find,on say,a large W/C Mig set,when you cannot actually weld with it,yourself.

On occasion,you will discover a reported "problem" is operator error,or even good ole' politics....you will find this hard to evaluate,if the testing part is out of your hands...Tony may relate to this.

You will need to be hungry to learn,learn all the aspects of the type of industry favoured,and NEVER think of parts of that trade as either beyond you,or too menial.

None of what you read on these threads,will put you off,if you are indeed serious....Because thick skin ,will be another attribute added to the list!

Good luck :icon12:

 

[UKMeterman]

If you want to see a whole load of interesting stuff to decide what you might like pop along to the NEC about this time next year and go to Drives and Controls 2014 - Welcome to Drives and Controls 2014 lots of different sectors for you to consider.

 

[assegayer]

Thank you all for your useful replies

 

[Knobhead]

Diplomacy helps if there’s a fault in the future. You cover for the operator, he’ll be helpful after that.
Learning to cut through operator BS is a learnt skill, they’ll try to cover their arse by leading you astray. You develop a 2nd sense, are you getting the truth or not. The usual “I didn’t touch anything, it did it on its own” always raises a wry smile, either that or I’d go wappy at them.

Covering for an operators cock up has landed me in the office a few times. “We know you’re telling lies, we can’t prove it!” The process lads looked after me because I looked after them.

An important thing, learn the process. That way you’ll know what should be happening and you’ll not be trying to fathom it out when it has genuinely gone belly up.

assegayer, it takes time to get in to the swing of industrial work. If you get half a chance, get in there. It’ll be hard work at first but once you’re up and running, you’ll not regret the decision.

 

[snowhead]

Wot they said.

With any process or system it's a lot easier to fault and fix if you've seen it working correctly in the first place especially when sequence starts are involved or all the operators have p&ssed of to the canteen.

 

[rapparee]

Diplomacy helps if there’s a fault in the future. You cover for the operator, he’ll be helpful after that.
Learning to cut through operator BS is a learnt skill, they’ll try to cover their arse by leading you astray. You develop a 2nd sense, are you getting the truth or not. The usual “I didn’t touch anything, it did it on its own” always raises a wry smile, either that or I’d go wappy at them.

Covering for an operators cock up has landed me in the office a few times. “We know you’re telling lies, we can’t prove it!” The process lads looked after me because I looked after them.

An important thing, learn the process. That way you’ll know what should be happening and you’ll not be trying to fathom it out when it has genuinely gone belly up.

assegayer, it takes time to get in to the swing of industrial work. If you get half a chance, get in there. It’ll be hard work at first but once you’re up and running, you’ll not regret the decision.

That's very true. Sometimes the operator has that much experience of one particular machine they can practically pinpoint which sensor/switch has failed. If they are good to me i would give them some "lost time" on a day where they are struggling to meet there target. However sometimes i get the odd bollox who thinks it is smart to hit an e-stop and cover it up with a coat etc. These are the sort of boys i would happily let fall in the brown stuff in their time of need.

 

[Darkwood]

Diplomacy helps if there’s a fault in the future. You cover for the operator, he’ll be helpful after that.
Learning to cut through operator BS is a learnt skill, they’ll try to cover their arse by leading you astray. You develop a 2nd sense, are you getting the truth or not. The usual “I didn’t touch anything, it did it on its own” always raises a wry smile, either that or I’d go wappy at them.

Covering for an operators cock up has landed me in the office a few times. “We know you’re telling lies, we can’t prove it!” The process lads looked after me because I looked after them.

An important thing, learn the process. That way you’ll know what should be happening and you’ll not be trying to fathom it out when it has genuinely gone belly up.

assegayer, it takes time to get in to the swing of industrial work. If you get half a chance, get in there. It’ll be hard work at first but once you’re up and running, you’ll not regret the decision.

Not a truer word said ... the amount of stupidity I have hidden is beyond belief and you gain respect and an easier time in future issues...

I reckon a good 10yrs under someones wing before your anywhere near competent to tackle free lance breakdown on your tod..less if your routine to the same machines.

 

[Knobhead]

I wouldn’t even contemplate going in to many plants as a freelance. Too many dangers both to life and for collateral damage.

 

[Darkwood]

I wouldn’t even contemplate going in to many plants as a freelance. Too many dangers both to life and for collateral damage.

I stick to what I know though Tony been working on the same machines for 20 odd years.

Wire drawing machines.
Punching machines
Stone cutting gear etc
Twisting wire machines
Lathes of most natures, rollers etc all similar in operation just different jobs.
Carding lines

I've done many differing systems and built controls for them but not without fully understanding them from engineers who specialise in them, Ill work as part of a team if its new to me... this tends to be the case with carding lines where I might do a control kit for say the cutter machine only and it only linked to the process line by global E-stops as they are self automated and work independent of the main card lines.

I too keep off larger plant lines as you say if you don't fully understand the ins and outs your dicing with yours or others lives, most of the stuff I deal with is old hat and may seem complex but not really and just getting like for like replacements or as near as damn it, but knowing what I know and my experience I would never consider anyone doing it freelance with less than 10 to 15 yrs under their belt (I set up with 20yrs behind me), If they specialise in one machine then possible less yrs needed but its an interesting job and beats house bashing.

 

[Jonspark]

I'm the sole electrical engineer on our chemical/industrial site but only spend about 10% working, the other 90% is spent browsing forums like this.:yawn::yawn::yawn:

 

[rapparee]

I too keep off larger plant lines as you say if you don't fully understand the ins and outs your dicing with yours or others lives, most of the stuff I deal with is old hat and may seem complex but not really and just getting like for like replacements or as near as damn it, but knowing what I know and my experience I would never consider anyone doing it freelance with less than 10 to 15 yrs under their belt (I set up with 20yrs behind me), If they specialise in one machine then possible less yrs needed but its an interesting job and beats house bashing.

That's nice to hear. I have 7 years experience and i know i'm far from the finished article. It's nice to hear that others have as equally long learning curve than me. At times i think i should know it all but don't.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I'm the sole electrical engineer on our chemical/industrial site but only spend about 10% working, the other 90% is spent browsing forums like this.:yawn::yawn::yawn:

Go and have a kip in the bogs!

 

[Jonspark]

Go and have a kip in the bogs!

I can't get in for the fitters!

 

[Silly Sausage]

I can't get in for the fitters!

Grind all their spanners out to the next size up, confuse them for months!

 

[Darkwood]

That's nice to hear. I have 7 years experience and i know i'm far from the finished article. It's nice to hear that others have as equally long learning curve than me. At times i think i should know it all but don't.

In this sector you can't ever know it all, technology creeps forward faster than you can learn so your always chasing your tail... best to choose a section of the industry that has a lot of users and become focused on it.

 

[GMES]

Unless you’re going to use double sided sticky tape, yes.

Only about 40% of your time is electrical work. You have a plant to keep running, you do whatever is needed otherwise someone will be jumping up and down on you.

Cheers Tony I've now got an empty coffee cup and a wet laptop!!

 

[Geordie Spark]

Grind all their spanners out to the next size up, confuse them for months!

That's just pure evil!! .:devil2:

I like it!! :laugh:

 

[PEG]

Grind all their spanners out to the next size up, confuse them for months!

...Now THAT struck a chord...during my formative study years,i had an incident,that should serve as a warning to all who disrespect a mans' kit...

...So i'm away from home,living and learning,with a vast array of our countries finest,and a fellow student thought removing,and re-riveting the hook,on my tape measure,was a good jape...

Everything was 4mm bigger for while....anywho...this character possessed a lovely 1600 2 door Avenger (yep,i know...) and he loved it...target acquired...

I linked his distributor feed via a resistor,to his brake light switch....every time the pedal was pressed...engine off.

He went through every possible loose wire/fuel issue,my colleagues urged me towards admission,and i "fixed" it for him...the cost?

One,new shiny Stanley 3 meter :bobby:

 

[Knobhead]

Go to sleep on the transformers like any normal electrician.

 

[Bobster]

Go to sleep on the transformers like any normal electrician.

In the sand pit under the cooling fins is far more comfortable.

 

[Jonspark]

Go to sleep on the transformers like any normal electrician.

Nice idea but i'm not old enough to need day time naps