So what’s the script with these AFFDs?

[derek]

duplicate post

 

[alasdairp]

In my experience over many years (mainly industrial) most arcing events are are due to loose connections (i.e. poor workmanship*) and not between Phase and Neutral as several times shown in the video. In some other instances on the video, the RCD would trip anyway.
* an investigation into CU fires in wooden and plastic CU boxes showed that almost all were due to loose connections and arcing due to bad workmanship.

Arc detectors may be more necessary now that so many things are "double insulated" and so do not have the protective Earth wire that helps provide RCD protection.

Most arcs usually cause faulty operation, light flicker, noise on TV or radio and audio systems, etc. I am very dubious about wiring arcs being a significant cause of fires. I would like to see the fire investigation data showing that they really are. I suspect a greater cause of fires are all the electronic devices that are left plugged in and on 24-7 even when not in use (e.g. TVs, PSUs, chargers, etc, etc). The electronics do and will fail and not always in a safe mode. I also suspect that if arc detectors were mandated, then many more unqualified people would choose to add their own extra socket outlets to keep the costs down if employing an electrician would require a CU change.

Next thing will be a requirement for all domestic electric equipment to be PAT tested every 3 years.

Then the "regulators" allow plastic flammable panels to be fitted to high-rise blocks! Where has good old-fashioned high quality basic engineering practice gone?

Yes, I am a grumpy old man!

 

[satori]

No doubt the manufacturers pressed the IET for their inclusion in the 18th Edition on safety grounds ...... oops on profit grounds

I'd be interested to know about share ownership of the IET members, and at what point their shares were acquired. Was there a rush on shares when they decided to make RCDs a requirement, but before they told us? I do not believe for one second that, among the thousands of IET members, there aren't a large number who are going to earn more money as a result of foisting needless complexity on us.

And the cowboys will carry on regardless, I bet they're rubbing their hands together - well, no, they're not, they don't have a concept of regulations and so don't know about the windfall that is about to come their way.

 

[Wilko]

... I am very dubious about wiring arcs being a significant cause of fires. I would like to see the fire investigation data showing that they really are... I also suspect that if arc detectors were mandated, then many more unqualified people would choose to add their own extra socket outlets to keep the costs down if employing an electrician would require a CU change.

Hi Alasdair - hit the nail on the mate. I don't claim the longest or broardest experience but I don't see the need (?). Maybe I need to go to Spec Savers or something. The cost impact to Customers of RCDs and metal CUs was relatively small and it does have some stats to back it up. If I understand correctly, this change is likely to have much larger cost implications. Where is the London Firebrigade Report on this then?

 

[satori]

I'm looking forward to telling Mr & Mrs Jones that their new fuseboard will be costing over £1,000 ...................... NOT

Oh, you're doing that are you? I'm glad my in-laws have decided to use someone else. Good luck mate!

 

[Pete999]

First we had Ammenment3 where the spec for Domesti CUs was, that they had to be made from non combustable material, stemming from the LFB's reports that indicated that most electrical fires in Housed were the result of conmbustale CUs.
Now we have AFDDs were maybe going to be recommended all from a report from the LFB.
May be it's just me, I don't know, my thoughts regarding Amd 3 was maybe the problem was poor traing in the Domestic arena, has the implementation of AFDDs been a result of poor training? loose connections
poor installation methods by poorly trained opperatives? just thinking aloud, I to would love to see the LFB report.

 

[Midwest]

I've not read anywhere that the drive to use these devices comes from a report via LFB?

Seems to come from 'CENELEC level in Harmonized Documents (HD). Where no CENELEC HD exists, IEC level documents are taken into account. IEC 60364-4-42 Edition 3 and HD 60364-4-42 A1:2015 recommend the use of AFDDs' (Beama guide to AFDD's).

As someone's already mentioned, 'recommended' to be used in the US & Europe.

 

[Wilko]

Well spotted MW, sorry I was being sarky. I don't think there is any UK safety related data to support their introduction. Very Happy to read reports if there are any

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

i wouldnt at all be surprised that due to the amount of noise made about these things that the iet will leave them out of the 18th for now and maybe include them in the first amendment which will no doubt be out within 18 months once they have finished spending the cash from the initial release. It strikes me as being much like the possible requirement to have a rod on pme systems... its just not workable or practical.... time will tell...

 

[Pete999]

I've not read anywhere that the drive to use these devices comes from a report via LFB?

Seems to come from 'CENELEC level in Harmonized Documents (HD). Where no CENELEC HD exists, IEC level documents are taken into account. IEC 60364-4-42 Edition 3 and HD 60364-4-42 A1:2015 recommend the use of AFDDs' (Beama guide to AFDD's).

As someone's already mentioned, 'recommended' to be used in the US & Europe.

Neither have I "Just thinking aloud" my post said