Spark From Scratch

[jaydebruyne]

Hello there,

Just saying a polite hello. I'm new on here and new to the world of electrics.

I'm doing a Part P, 17th Edition and PAT testing course which starts on Monday so I thought I'd start getting to know other people in the same field.

I've just done a diploma in plumbing and wanted my domestic electrics to go with it. I don't plan on becoming a fully fledged sparky as my main interest lies in plumbing, but I'm interested in it nonetheless and would like to be able to be self sufficient when it come to domestic electrics & plumbing.

I'm a late starter at 37 but hey, I'm eager to learn.

Hope to learn lots from here

Cheers
Jay

 

[Richard Burns]

Welcome to the forum.
Good luck with the course and be aware of the limitations it will impose on what you do.

 

[jaydebruyne]

Welcome to the forum.
Good luck with the course and be aware of the limitations it will impose on what you do.

Hi Richard,

thanks for the welcome. What do you mean, limitations on what I do?

 

[Richard Burns]

If the only electrical installation qualification you have is the 17th edition of the wiring regulations then you will likely not have enough knowledge to be able to install electrical work safely, however you may be able to be registered with a self certification scheme, though they are now looking for a level 3 qualification, I believe.
If you wanted to work on a building site doing electrical installation work then you would not be permitted to start work and similarly for many commercial operations.

 

[jaydebruyne]

If the only electrical installation qualification you have is the 17th edition of the wiring regulations then you will likely not have enough knowledge to be able to install electrical work safely, however you may be able to be registered with a self certification scheme, though they are now looking for a level 3 qualification, I believe.
If you wanted to work on a building site doing electrical installation work then you would not be permitted to start work and similarly for many commercial operations.

I thought if I had Part P and 17th Ed I would be qualified enough for domestic installations? Is this not the case?

 

[Richard Burns]

This is a contentious point and is much discussed on the forum!

In practice if you have passed the 17th edition exam and want to undertake electrical work in domestic properties then there is nothing to stop you unless something goes wrong.

The technical requirements of undertaking electrical work are that you must be competent to do the work, how this is defined is not stated, but if something were to go wrong then it would be up to you to be able to prove that you are competent.

In order to comply with the legal requirements of undertaking domestic work that is notifiable to building control then you would either have to inform building control in advance and pay their (often exorbitant) fee or register with a self certification scheme and notify building control through them.

Joining a scheme costs about as much as a single notification (depending on your local councils fees).

The Part P qualification is just a training exercise in understanding the application to electrical work of the building regulations and the approved document P (available for free download from the planning portal).


In terms of competence passing the 17th edition exam may be sufficient, but may not.
In general the electrical industry would not consider you competent, but the self certification schemes would consider you competent.
What a judge would say is outside of my knowledge.

 

[UNG]

I thought if I had Part P and 17th Ed I would be qualified enough for domestic installations? Is this not the case?

Part P has no standing as an electrical qualification as it is a building regulation the 17th Ed course is an update course for qualified electricians although for a number of years now the quick training providers have miss sold it as a course that qualifies you as an electrician

 

[jaydebruyne]

Part P has no standing as an electrical qualification as it is a building regulation the 17th Ed course is an update course for qualified electricians although for a number of years now the quick training providers have miss sold it as a course that qualifies you as an electrician

I've just contacted the IET. Not saying I don't believe you guys, but if I can get in writing from them what you've just told me I'm going to cancel my course and ask for a refund as I was completely miss sold these courses.

I'm so annoyed!!!!!!

So, can I ask, to carry out domestic installs, e.g. electric showers etc, what qualifications do I need? Do I need to become a fully qualified electrician? (Sorry if that sounds completely naive, I just don't know the answers).

Cheers
Jay

 

[telectrix]

these short corses are churning out 5 week wonders by the cartload. basic theoretical knowledge, no practical experience outside a classroom, but the likes of niceic will accept it because they want your ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££s. then you get let loose to gain experience by working in houses , asking on the forum because you've come across something that wasn't covered in your 5 weeks. there's no short cut to becoming an electrician. it takes 3-4 years for the basic core qualification, then you start on a steep learning curve. put it another way. would you trust a doctor that had trained in 5 weeks to do your vasectomy?

 

[jaydebruyne]

these short corses are churning out 5 week wonders by the cartload. basic theoretical knowledge, no practical experience outside a classroom, but the likes of niceic will accept it because they want your ££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££s. then you get let loose to gain experience by working in houses , asking on the forum because you've come across something that wasn't covered in your 5 weeks. there's no short cut to becoming an electrician. it takes 3-4 years for the basic core qualification, then you start on a steep learning curve. put it another way. would you trust a doctor that had trained in 5 weeks to do your vasectomy?

I couldn't agree more. You know, when I booked it I was skeptical but the sales guy (I will refrain from profanities) basically reeled me in like a caught fish.

I was desperate to change my life and I bought his BS. The Plumbing course I did wasn't much better and have since found out that the all my City & Guilds Plumbing certificates will get me is a discount card at Screwfix.

These w%$&£$s shouldn't be aloud to do this to people. And I shouldn't have been so naive. Lesson learned and £6k out of pocket. My bad!