testing other electricians work

[ajelec10]

Jason, you are correct as it says in the document.
Reagrds
AJ

 

[Guest123]

Another little thing to ponder on, Part P as we know only applies to domestic dwellings. What about work the falls outside the scope of Part P i.e, industrial commercial etc.

I was always taught that this is the case whatever the scenario and personally would never issue an EIC for another sparks work, never have, never will. But as I have already said what about work outside the scope of Part P....is it also illegal to carry out this type of certification on non domestic situations....I will put my neck on the line and say no, purely because it is not covered by the building regs and therefore has no legal standing.

Would it not then be at the discretion of the scheme provider??

Views then chaps???

PS tin hat is firmly secured.

 

[mdavismccoy]

Hi, No body seems to mention the 3 signature certificate, this is what you should use in the case where an electrician has designed and carried out the work, they may sign for the first 2, and the person inspecting and testing signs the 3 one. No need for a PIR on a new installation.

 

[Guest123]

Hi there.

Thats a fair point well made.

The issue we have here though is that hypothetically the sparks who designed and constructed the installation is no longer around to slap his monicker in boxes 1 and 2.
Would you then go ahead and sign all 3???? and would it be legal for you to do so??

Cheers.

 

[Spudnik]

Nope it isnt illegal to do that.

However, you cannot submit the work as your own.

 

[baldsparkies]

Remember a situation where an installation i ran had a spec provided by an electrical consulting company. On completion I signed the verification and testing, but not design. The certificates were sent back saying they were incomplete,but I stood my ground,refused to sign the design section and received an apology. Just proves that sometimes people will try to duck out if they can get away with it. It was an hospital ICU unit as well

 

[NoSparks]

When a consumer unit is changed, it is required to issue and EIC, or so I was instructed when taking my 2381 and 2391.

The arguments put forward above indicate the reason why an EIC cannot be issued for another sparks installation is that they would not know if the cabeling had been installed correctly. Quite right. But if this is the case for a new installation, why is it different if a CU has been changed?

 

[Spudnik]

.... why is it different if a CU has been changed?

Because the CU must be marked accordingly ie "CU change only", on the periodic test label that is fixed to it.

 

[markythesparky]

So to sum up.

Are we all agreed that as Approved Document Part P of the Building Regs states, it IS illegal to 'Part P' someone elses work?

Answers on a postcard please to

NICIEC
Con street
Rip offsville
Shadyshire
UK

 

[Spudnik]

So to sum up.

Are we all agreed that as Approved Document Part P of the Building Regs states, it IS illegal to 'Part P' someone elses work?

Yep.

 

[baldsparkies]

So to sum up

Apart from a Building Inspector, nobody can certify someone else's work as being compliant with the Building Regulations. Unless arranged by or in cooperation with LABC, a 3rd party electrical inspection is of no value in terms of complying with the law.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2004/20043210.htm amended by the 2006 SI here: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20060652.htm

 

[mdavismccoy]

Hi, there are moral issues here. why would you want to sign anyone else's work off. A job that has been carried out by the guy from the pub, or anyone who carries out any electrical work without issuing a certificate. The home owner may have carried out the work and cannot issue an EIC.

You are asked to carry out I&T, you would use a 3 signature certificate certificate, parts 1 and 2, you would put in "an other". You do your visuals, as far as you can go. In the limitations you put not lifted or unable to lift the floor boards, not inspected cable routes or first fix. Do your tests, circuits electrically sound, all results satisfy the criteria, and the materials used satisfy the requirements for the installation.

You are interested in IS IT SAFE.

It has to be an inital inspection and test, not a PIR.

When you are satisfied with the EIC, Shedule of inspections, shedule of test results. You send them to who ever, if they are not satisfied and class them as incomplete, to what are they competent to say so. If the person responsible for the design and installation had been known, don't the realise you would have had them to sign the forms.

If the persons who receives the EIC and associated paper work, you would expect the to understand what everything means and do their homework and not look for all the boxes to be ticked, then shuffle the paper work.

No need to stand your ground, tell them to have their facts right before getting on to you. You have checked and double checked that you have facts right. Don't teach them what you have took time to learn and give it to them on a plate (am not talking about other sparks or trainee's I no problems with helping others in the trade, or advising none electrical persons).

 

[tmaelectrical09]

Hello can anyone help. I have an nvq lvl 3 and am looking to start up on my own. Am i able to do any testing without doing 2391/2392. Also what do you need to qualify for part p.
Regards Tom

 

[Richard Andrews]

Let's talk legal...Part P Electrical Installation Certificate... If I had done the job or supervised the job I could put a new electrical certificate on the job.

If somebody else had done the job then I would only do a Periodical... Building Control should have been notified if the person responsible for the job wasn't registered, but with building control's nod a periodical can get the house owner their compliance paperwork.

Don't be afraid to put those having the work done or those doing it in the hands of building control and the law - prosecutions lead to publicity regarding the negative side of having a job done on the cheap and publicity leads to education. The best education is what cost somebody dearly££££££.

I know times are getting rough in this credit -crunch (unless you're a politician with an expense account) and protecting what you pay membership fees to do seems to be the only way to survive...

 

[mdavismccoy]

Hi, all new installations should have an inital I&T, subsequent I&T periodics at the inspectors recommendations or GN3/IET recommendations.

I don't agree with the "building control's nod can get the house owner their compliance paperwork".

If building control has been notified by a customer and paid the fee, electrical installation work can be carried out by anyone who is qualified or not(DIYER), building control has to I&T and cover the cost of I&T to themselves at no cost to the customer. They must do an inital I&T and issue the correct EIC, shedule of inspections and shedule of test results.

Thats why electricians do no have to members of a scheme to carry out new builds, new extensions, or any work which has building control involved. Check out the part P information. Also it is the home owner who has to notify BC.

Or the accept EIC, shedule of inspections and shedule of test results, from a competent person.

As far as the Competent Persons Scheme, should be called Competent Enterprise Scheme as it is the enterprise which is registered, not an actual person who is the competent person. The ECS register is an actual competent persons register.

Compliance paperwork, if there is any problems with this when selling a property, the owner could just pay an indemnity insurance to cover any come back.

 

[albi]

i have just finished of a set of flats that where started three years ago the spark that was doing it coled down the company then a 2 week special to over then he got the push. the cliant whants a comp crert . i told him to contact the local council thay come back with i can do a pir witch thay will accept also contacted the niceic thay saide the same but you need to get the councils pommistion first

 

[tomasi]

Regarding this matter,I know of a company who do a lot of apartment blocks and this scenario applies

one team of sparks 1st/2nd fix flats and another team who have not even seen the job till it is completed
turn up and test the flats and sign the EIC,S.

I keep on telling them that they are leaving them selves open to all kinds of hurt,they dont understand and
say they have to and cant refuse to do it, and anyway if they have not got the relevant certification
that is required to test(not even the 17th edition)the company is at fault ,I say to them yes but so are you.

 

[Spudnik]

They should only sign the Inspection and testing box on the cert.

That way they are not liable.

Not always the case though.

 

[Richard Andrews]

Building Control route... Pay BC fee...First Fix inspected by building control...Second Fix and Periodical Inspection by Suitably Qualified Person (paid for by the person who's having the electrical work done or included in the price of who's doing the work)...Building Control then provides the Periodical Inspection papers to their own specialist "just to check the test results". This is how it works in my neck of the woods.


BS7671 is the electrical regs, BUT Building Regs are the law..."No new electrical circuit may be energised without being tested" is within the regs AND Building Regs states Part Pworks must meet the electrical regs.

Now... How many diy-ers have callibrated test instruments and are able to complete BS7671 test certificates?

Companies I work for require minor works cert's just for like-for-like changes to reduce the possibility of future litigation.....

 

[Barneyb57]

Question for you all,,,looking at this from the customers point of view......Customer buys a house, he knows that the installation is only lets say 5 years old, it was done by an Electrician who has since retired or moved on say, Customer needs a New Certificate on the installation,,,going by what many of you say on here, that an Electricain cannot legaly test and inspect and issue a Certificate part P EIC or otherwise,,,,,how is the Customer supposed to get a certificate to satisfy the local Authority or for inclusion in a H.I.P. for instance??

As a Former Electrician,,,as in not presently working as an Electrician and not 17th Edition but was 15th edition, having just bought a house an older property,,,,and as such it needs Rewiring, and I want to rewire it myself, having done hundreds in the past, how can I get the new installation tested and inspected, what is the best way of doing this?