Should Scotland be allowed another referendum and do you think parliament has a right to deny it?

[Baddegg]

I don’t want to go it alone.......and don’t know any English that do, come to that I don’t know any Scottish that do either.......?

 

[baldelectrician]

I don’t want to go it alone.......and don’t know any English that do, come to that I don’t know any Scottish that do either.......?

That's the point

The ONLY way to settle it is a referendum, there were porkies told all over the place last time
When the (now) First Minister brought up that Scotland may be dragged out the EU she was basically told she was scaremongering, yet that is what happened

For context the guy on the right was the UK Government Scottish Secretary at the time- a cabinet member.

The Better Together side told Scots that they had to vote NO to independence to GUARANTEE Scotland would stay in the EU.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1133011149803393024

 

[Baddegg]

Oh god not again......YOU had a referendum........Scotland voted to stay........I’m gonna tell you something know that will blow your mind as well.........politicians lie...ALL of them not some of em ALL of em ?
do you not think that the remain voters knew that Scotland possibly could be pulled out of the eu if they voted to remain?.....it wasn’t a secret was it?...they knew what they were voting for...it’s insulting to suggest they didn’t!

 

[DPG]

The phrase 'dog with a bone' comes to mind.

 

[baldelectrician]

Oh god not again......YOU had a referendum........Scotland voted to stay........I’m gonna tell you something know that will blow your mind as well.........politicians lie...ALL of them not some of em ALL of em ?

Translation:
We are your imperial masters, it does not matter how you vote, what you say you WILL be subservient to us and do as we say.
We gave you one vote- democracy is now dead, shut up and know your place you sweaty Jocks.


have I left anything out ?
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The next Scottish Parliament election will be in May 2021 and it will be a defacto indyref mandate

It will be interesting to see how things pan out, if Boris fluffs things up and Scotland goes independent we may need border controls to prevent refugees flooding north (like in the Handmaid's Tale)

 

[Baddegg]

Translation:
We are your imperial masters, it does not matter how you vote, what you say you WILL be subservient to us and do as we say.
We gave you one vote- democracy is now dead, shut up and know your place you sweaty Jocks.


have I left anything out ?

Mate honestly the only people with that mindset are you....there are no (ok none I know) English with that attitude, your sense of being repressed is holding you back......I can’t believe I’m gonna let you in on another secret in one evening but here goes......the English quite like the Scottish ?.....I know!
I used English as an example I personally would call myself British ?

If as you believe the English hate you all so much why doesn’t frankie ask for a vote from all corners of the United Kingdom as to wether Scotland should leave?.......should be a full gone conclusion for her surely?

 

[DPG]

Bald electrician, please stop putting words into our mouths to make us appear anti Scottish. I know it suits your viewpoint, but it simply isn't true in the main.

 

[baldelectrician]

why doesn’t frankie ask for a vote

See - needing to ask for permission to have a decision for your country, stay in your place.

I am most certainly anti English, when we did family holidays we went to Torbay as the weather is decidedly warmer and I prefer to stay in the British Isles.

When we are independent I will prefer to holiday here as well.

The democratically elected Scottish Parliament should have the right to decide when and if a vote tom leave the UK is held

Simple as that.
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I am not anti English, I am anti-Westminster as i believe it is past it

For example Labour have been wanting to abolish the House of Lords for over 100 years but still have not managed it.

 

[DPG]

You carry on being anti English if you want. You're only going to wind yourself up. The rest of us just get on with each other.

 

[Baddegg]

See - needing to ask for permission to have a decision for your country, stay in your place.

I am most certainly anti English, when we did family holidays we went to Torbay as the weather is decidedly warmer and I prefer to stay in the British Isles.

When we are independent I will prefer to holiday here as well.

The democratically elected Scottish Parliament should have the right to decide when and if a vote tom leave the UK is held

Simple as that.

It’s OUR country, all of ours.....United Kingdom what affects one affects all......ok ask for a vote poor choice of words on my behalf fueling your fire but I’m sure you understood what I meant mate ?

 

[baldelectrician]

I am not putting words in to peoples mouths, it's the language such as
'allowing the Scots to have a referendum'

Instead of supporting people to have democracy- remeber the Scottish Parliament is vastly more proportional than Westminster
Boris got elected on a lower % of the vote and a lower % of the seats than the SNP did in Scotland yet he has a mandate but the SNP don't

As I said earlier (on another thread) the UK government keep changing the goal posts about when and if Scotland can decide her own fate.

I am sorry if it comes across as anti-English, it is most certainly NOT.

 

[Baddegg]

@baldelectrician you did state you were anti English, bit harsh but there you go......as for the House of Lords I doubt you’d get much argument against abolishing it down here

 

[DPG]

I can't be bothered with this. You seem like a very bitter individual, and certainly nothing like the Scottish people I know and who I have worked with.

 

[Baddegg]

So what is your reasoning for ignoring the fisrt referendum?....I can’t be just because a politician told a fib surely?......you seem well read and and level headed, little bit obsessed maybe but...you can’t honestly believe any campaign for or against a referendum will be any different next time?

 

[baldelectrician]

It’s OUR country, all of ours.....United Kingdom what affects one affects all......ok ask for a vote poor choice of words on my behalf fueling your fire but I’m sure you understood what I meant mate ?

I understand where you come from, but my point is ,
The Scottish Parliament is democratically elected on a quasi PR system - if it decides to hold a referendum who has the right to block it and why.
Is it up to people other than the Scottish voters (through the Scottish Parliament) to decide their own future? or are they subservient till the end of time?

 

[Baddegg]

I understand where you come from, but my point is ,
The Scottish Parliament is democratically elected on a quasi PR system - if it decides to hold a referendum who has the right to block it and why.
Is it up to people other than the Scottish voters (through the Scottish Parliament) to decide their own future? or are they subservient till the end of time?

So how would you feel/react if you lost another referendum?....be honest!....where does it stop?, and let’s not forget how from an economic point of view at least how destabilising referendums are....uncertainty frightens investors and that’s what you’ve got uncertainty in the future, if frankie gets it across the line there’s no real guarantee that Europe will welcome Scotland with open arms, does it need another dependant?....will there even be an EU? I know you’ll scoff but it’s a possibility and I’m not arrogant enough to suggest that just because the United Kingdom chose to leave, it’s been failing for years,

 

[baldelectrician]

So what is your reasoning for ignoring the fisrt referendum?....I can’t be just because a politician told a fib surely?......

Quite simple:
“When facts change, I change my mind,” John Maynard Keynes famously said

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. These words are usually credited to the acclaimed genius Albert Einstein

Scotland has voted Labour for decades and we seem surprised to get a tory government.
The point of independence is no more Tory governments in Scotland and running our own affairs

A corner pillar of the last referendum was that Scots were told to vote NO was a guarantee of staying in the EU

https://twitter.com/x/status/1133011149803393024

My neighbour is Polish and his wife is German, they both live here, obey the law and pay taxes.
He voted NO in the last Scottish independence referendum, his wife did not vote then.
They would both vote to now be in the EU (as things stand a hard Brexit is on the cards and there is NO chance of Scotland being in the EU, with #IndyRef2 we have a better than average chance)

There are about 40,000 voters passing on in Scotland each year, most of these that pass on are older and predominately NO voters to #IndyRef2
The younger ones are predominately YES (over 60%) so the longer it is between votes the higher the propensity of a YES vote.

Add that to the 180,000 or so EU nationals in Scotland who either did not vote last time or voted NO then you can see why Westmonster is getting a squeaky bum.
If Boris thought that NO would win he would call Nicola's bluff and 'let us choose'

 

[Baddegg]

Don’t forget Boris has to take every body into account....I understand you clearly hate the tories, would rather be a one party state?, dangerous territory that...you seem to have ignored my questions regarding instability and the eu???

 

[baldelectrician]

So how would you feel/react if you lost another referendum?....be honest!....where does it stop?, and let’s not forget how from an economic point of view at least how destabilising referendums are....uncertainty frightens investors and that’s what you’ve got uncertainty in the future, if frankie gets it across the line there’s no real guarantee that Europe will welcome Scotland with open arms, does it need another dependant?....will there even be an EU? I know you’ll scoff but it’s a possibility and I’m not arrogant enough to suggest that just because the United Kingdom chose to leave, it’s been failing for years,

The EU is a side issue for me
I want independence and honestly believe that if we were bleeding the UK dry (as they suggest) the Tories would drop us like a hot potato

Why force someone to stay in a marriage that does not want to be there, not much of a partnership of equals

You seem to be forgetting Nicola is a means to an end- once we get independence the SNP will disappear like snow off a dry stone wall.

 

[Baddegg]

The EU is a side issue for me
I want independence and honestly believe that if we were bleeding the UK dry (as they suggest) the Tories would drop us like a hot potato

Why force someone to stay in a marriage that does not want to be there, not much of a partnership of equals

You seem to be forgetting Nicola is a means to an end- once we get independence the SNP will disappear like snow off a dry stone wall.

C’mon I only target Nicola because it’s easy to do so!...lazy of me I know but I like a laugh...I believe the great billy connelly coined the greatest phrase in politics....”anybody who wants to be a politician should automatically be barred from being one!” Or words to that affect ?......I’ve heard you argue the bleeding dry case before, where are you referring that from?......I’m also a bit disappointed in the present climate that anyone of your clearly educated mind would hate or detest anyone that badly purely for a different set of ideals or beliefs...I dint want Scotland to leave but would be the first to shake yours of frankies hand should you succeed in a fair and democratic way......now c’mon what would you say to all the voters that are concerned for Scotland’s economic stability should frankie succeed??

 

[baldelectrician]

See - needing to ask for permission to have a decision for your country, stay in your place. I am most certainly anti English, when we did family holidays we went to Torbay as the weather is decidedly warmer and I prefer to stay in the British Isles. When we are independent I will prefer to holiday here as well. The democratically elected Scottish Parliament should have the right to decide when and if a vote tom leave the UK is held Simple as that.

Just read my thread and cannot believe what I typed, CORRECT VERSION BELOW
please accept my apologies.

See - needing to ask for permission to have a decision for your country, stay in your place.
I am most certainly NOT anti English, when we did family holidays we went to Torbay as the weather is decidedly warmer and I prefer to stay in the British Isles. When we are independent I will prefer to holiday here as well.
The democratically elected Scottish Parliament should have the right to decide when and if a vote to leave the UK is held Simple as that.

 

[Baddegg]

Are you sure you’re not a politician @baldelectrician?....you’ve dodged,avoided and evaded more questions than a Tory minister on a Sunday morning BBC politics show! ?

 

[baldelectrician]

Definitely not a politician, chose not to even think about standing as I am not a robot and openly disagree on some SNP policies.

Here's a politician from Ireland getting involved in the mix

 

[Baddegg]

As before mate, what would you say to a Scottish voter who was fretting over the financial implications of leaving?.....what is Scotland’s proposal for the vast eu sums she’ll need to find?, and what happen if, and it’s a genuine possibility, the remainder of the uk decide that they don’t fancy Scotland having the pound as a new and uncertain entity there’s a strong possibility of devaluation of the currency?......What would Nicola say to that?......I’m also a bit concerned that you want the abolition of the Tory party and by your own admission the SNP will be dropped as a political entity for being useless,essentially leaving Scotland with the Labour Party, more and more a socialist party these days....

 

[baldelectrician]

As before mate, what would you say to a Scottish voter who was fretting over the financial implications of leaving?
Scotland is financially better off than the whole of the UK, Scottish GDP is ESTIMATED not calculated as most of the items used are calculated on a per capita basis, not an actual basis.

.....what is Scotland’s proposal for the vast eu sums she’ll need to find?
This is only if Scotland decides to join the Euro, the only way to join the Euro is to join the ERM - joining the ERM is entirely voluntry

and what happen if, and it’s a genuine possibility, the remainder of the uk decide that they don’t fancy Scotland having the pound
It's not up to the UK who uses Sterling, the UK can prevent Scotland from using the Bank of England as lender of last resort.
Scotland will set up their own Scottish £ and peg it to Sterling in the initial years (like the Republic of Ireland did with the Punt)

as a new and uncertain entity there’s a strong possibility of devaluation of the currency?
Scotland is a net exporter of goods

.....What would Nicola say to that?..
Not up to her, up to the Scottish Parliament and who the Scots elect as First Minister

....I’m also a bit concerned that you want the abolition of the Tory party
No, in an independent Scotland there will be Tories, Lib Dems, Labour etc the difference is that the parties will have separate headquarters based in Scotland who will not be controlled using a London and South East agenda

and by your own admission the SNP will be dropped as a political entity
Politics will realign in Scotland - more like the rest of Europe, coalitions will be the norm- no single large party with full control (better for democracy)

See comments above in red

 

[Baddegg]

See comments above in red

I get that but to the average voter that’s just words with no clear explanation, people aren’t as daft as politicians would like or like to believe.....all that is is a --- for tat argument with no real reference as to how Scotland would achieve this.....estimated is a fancy word for guessing....to my mind this is where they fail, all politicians I mean, people are onto the media and lip service and no longer believe things because a pepper or person of perceived authority say them, so please an example of how?

 

[baldelectrician]

I get that but to the average voter that’s just words with no clear explanation, people aren’t as daft as politicians would like or like to believe.....all that is is a --- for tat argument with no real reference as to how Scotland would achieve this.....estimated is a fancy word for guessing....to my mind this is where they fail, all politicians I mean, people are onto the media and lip service and no longer believe things because a pepper or person of perceived authority say them, so please an example of how?

I agree that estimates are poor but almost ALL the figures come from UK departments, maybe I am cynical but if the actual figures showed Scotland was a basket case they would be all over the media.

The following chart is from before oil etc, the UK stop gathering actual accurate data on Scottish income etc about then (it is not linked to the fact that the SNP were formed about this time).

 

[Baddegg]

I agree that estimates are poor but almost ALL the figures come from UK departments, maybe I am cynical but if the actual figures showed Scotland was a basket case they would be all over the media.

The following chart is from before oil etc, the UK stop gathering actual accurate data on Scottish income etc about then (it is not linked to the fact that the SNP were formed about this time).

So to anyone born from 1975 onwards you’d show them that and say we are better off going it alone?....at a time when the world are at least discussing phasing out fossil fuels particularly in the motor industry?....I don’t think you’re MAYBE a bit cynical mate shall we just take that as a given ?
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How many Scottish people depend on earning they living in England and take that money home with em?.....you can’t expect that to continue surely?....
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I personally know off at least one jock who intends to spend his working life down here in the south and then retire back up to Scotland and who can blame him I’d love to do it.....what would you tell these people?

 

[baldelectrician]

So to anyone born from 1975 onwards you’d show them that and say we are better off going it alone?....at a time when the world are at least discussing phasing out fossil fuels particularly in the motor industry?....I don’t think you’re MAYBE a bit cynical mate shall we just take that as a given ?
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How many Scottish people depend on earning they living in England and take that money home with em?.....you can’t expect that to continue surely?....
[automerge]1592307577[/automerge]
I personally know off at least one jock who intends to spend his working life down here in the south and then retire back up to Scotland and who can blame him I’d love to do it.....what would you tell these people?

The stats are till 1920, after then they were not done and then 'estimated'

I will give one example.
HS2, Crossrail, Thames gateway etc- all this is accounted as UK infrastructure spending and 10% is 'estimated' to Scotland. The reality is that other than UK power network connectors (to bring green energy to the rest of the UK) there is almost NO UK infrastructure spend in Scotland from Werstminster

How many Scottish people depend on earning they living in England and take that money home with em?.....you can’t expect that to continue surely?....
Don't call me Shirley ....
This happens at present - there are different tax rates in Scotland now, the same thing happens in Northern Ireland / Republic of Ireland and it all works.

I personally know off at least one jock who intends to spend his working life down here in the south and then retire back up to Scotland and who can blame him I’d love to do it.....what would you tell these people?
I would tell them ' Welcome to Scotland'

Talking about fossil fuels - Scotland has over 30% of EUROPE'S renewable potential, this can be sold across the sea to mainland EU giving a steady income stream (I am talking about wave as well which is constant).
This is the future

 

[Midwest]

My feelings are people’s should be free to do what they think fit within the law, and for the good of all. Majority should have the say so. You should run with what the majority have decide, for a suitable period of time, like an elected government. Things like Brexit would have a different period of reflection, not withstanding the EU would have us back in the next decade for example. But say perhaps ‘we’ decided, to rejoin in say 20 or 30 years time, then we could should debate that.

Same for Scottish Independence, a vote was held and the majority made that decision. You should run with that for a period of time, before re considering. You can’t just want a revote because it didn’t work out the way you wanted. I was a remainer, but have accepted the vote to leave, it would be ridiculous to say let’s have another referendum then another referendum then another. Some point, a decision has to be made.

I’m see myself as British not English. I would be concerned for all, if we saw Scotland leave the Union, as I would any other of the Home countries. I’m not sure how England would survive on its own, and how the demise of the UK would affect the other Home countries.

I think Scotland should decide its future; but they’ve already decided once to remain. You’ve mentioned Brexit has changed Scottish opinion about the Union, but Scotland is out. Why not wait and see how things work out, you see to have most of your own autonomy, why do you want to break up the Union.

 

[baldelectrician]

My feelings are people’s should be free to do what they think fit within the law, and for the good of all. Majority should have the say so. You should run with what the majority have decide, for a suitable period of time, like an elected government. Things like Brexit would have a different period of reflection, not withstanding the EU would have us back in the next decade for example. But say perhaps ‘we’ decided, to rejoin in say 20 or 30 years time, then we could should debate that.

Same for Scottish Independence, a vote was held and the majority made that decision. You should run with that for a period of time, before re considering. You can’t just want a revote because it didn’t work out the way you wanted. I was a remainer, but have accepted the vote to leave, it would be ridiculous to say let’s have another referendum then another referendum then another. Some point, a decision has to be made.

I’m see myself as British not English. I would be concerned for all, if we saw Scotland leave the Union, as I would any other of the Home countries. I’m not sure how England would survive on its own, and how the demise of the UK would affect the other Home countries.

I think Scotland should decide its future; but they’ve already decided once to remain. You’ve mentioned Brexit has changed Scottish opinion about the Union, but Scotland is out. Why not wait and see how things work out, you see to have most of your own autonomy, why do you want to break up the Union.

You should run with that for a period of time, before re considering
Yes- I agree, the UK government have defined a 'generation' as 7 years- this is in the Good Friday Agreement, so I don't mind waiting till September 2021 for the next vote


I think Scotland should decide its future; but they’ve already decided once to remain. You’ve mentioned Brexit has changed Scottish opinion about the Union, but Scotland is out. Why not wait and see how things work out, you see to have most of your own autonomy, why do you want to break up the Union.
68% of Scots who voted in the EU referendum voted to stay in the EU
Scotland voted to stay in and are being forced out, Northern Ireland also voted in (by a smaller margin) and are remaining in the single market, the customs union PLUS being allowed a vote on their future in the EU when the want - through the Northern Ireland assembly
I am happy Northern Ireland have these rights - not that Scotland is effectively told to sit down, shut up and know your place.

To deny a vote is to deny democracy
The answer to how many referendums Scotland should have is simple- as many as the Scottish Parliament vote for.

I see myself as Scottish first and European second, never British.
I cannot wait till I have a Scottish passport - once independence comes I will be replacing my passport even though it has a few years to run.

Scotland will be in an advantageous position post independence, there WILL be a fair (to both sides) deal with the rest of the UK.
If there is no trade deal the lights go out down south, so despite the bluff and bluster of politicians common sense will prevail.

 

[DPG]

You seem proud to say that you would never consider yourself British? How sad. I think you need to get over all this before it takes over.

 

[baldelectrician]

The UK act of leaving the EU is a major act of self harm to the UK, now if the rest of the UK want to jump off the economic cliff then fine- Scotland has a life raft.

The UK government could compromise- the EU have given special dispensation for Northern Ireland to stay in the customs union and single market, Scotland has asked the UK government to request the EU on Scotland's behalf - the UK have refused

As things stand the Scottish Government can not approach the EU as they are not a member state. Once independent we will be a member with a veto and a say at the table.
Remember Malta has more influence over Scottish laws and affairs in some areas than the Scottish Government has.

 

[DPG]

I'm not getting drawn in again. It's like a car crash though, you can't stop looking!

 

[baldelectrician]

Many Scots do not see themselves as British, about 20 years ago 84% of Scots saw themselves as British, recently this was below 60% and is in decline.

This is due to the lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster.

 

[Baddegg]

Many Scots do not see themselves as British, about 20 years ago 84% of Scots saw themselves as British, recently this was below 60% and is in decline.

This is due to the lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster.

Another secret coming here mate......lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster is not exclusive to Scotland.,,,,I’m with @DPG......you seem determined to see the world burn and to hell with anyone that doesn’t agree....see ya x

 

[baldelectrician]

The Scottish Government talk the talk and act where Boris and the rest of the Tories don't care
The financial bail out of the CV19 (so far) has cost only 5% of what it cost to bail out the bankers

Meanwhile the Scottish Government extend free school meals through the summer
Remember all P1-P3 (age 5-8) kids in Scotland already get free school meals (no turkey twizzlers here), will attach my kids school menu.

Free school meals extended through summer in Scotland

Copy of menu (when school is open)

https://www.east-ayrshire.gov.uk/Resources/PDF/School-meals/School-Meals-Menu.pdf

 

[DPG]

Jeez it's like one long party political broadcast on a loop. Same thing over and over again.

 

[baldelectrician]

Another secret coming here mate......lack of respect and ignorance from Westminster is not exclusive to Scotland.,,,,I’m with @DPG......you seem determined to see the world burn and to hell with anyone that doesn’t agree....see ya x

I see the UK going down a bad part and they (the Tories et all) don't seem to care or want to know
All other governments / assemblies in the EU have expressed their wish to have an extension due to Covit, the Tories have just ignored it.

Fortunately in Scotland we have the option to leave-
Putting my cards on the table - if the UK offered Scotland full fiscal autonomy and any war acts had to have the approval of a majority of the UK governments I would be content to stay.

Remember Gordon Brown (with the oversight of David Cameron) offered Scots 'as near federalism as you can get' which turned out to be full control of road signs, 25% of income tax and 15% of welfare

 

[Baddegg]

Gordon brown was/is and always will be a liar, he’s a politician........of course the eu wants an extension we would then be liable for a massive share of the covid bailout......we voted that’s it I appreciate that’s a concept some people struggle with but that’s it...

 

[Midwest]

The UK government could compromise- the EU have given special dispensation for Northern Ireland to stay in the customs union and single market, Scotland has asked the UK government to request the EU on Scotland's behalf - the UK have refused

I thought the reason for that, is the land border between the two countries, and nothing to do with NI wanting to stay in a trading partnership with the EU?

 

[Baddegg]

I thought the reason for that, is the land border between the two countries, and nothing to do with NI wanting to stay in a trading partnership with the EU?

Can you imagine if Scotland does leave.....and does Join the EU (can’t see it but...)and the EU give England dispensation due to the land border ?????......

 

[Midwest]

Can you imagine if Scotland does leave.....and does Join the EU (can’t see it but...)and the EU give England dispensation due to the land border ?????......

You have a point there!

 

[Baddegg]

You have a point there!

I’d imagine that in itself puts Scotland on the back foot for joining.....the EU will never concede that now ?

 

[baldelectrician]

I thought the reason for that, is the land border between the two countries, and nothing to do with NI wanting to stay in a trading partnership with the EU?

It's mainly to do with the Good Friday agreement and peace process, the point is that concessions can be made and M Barnier said that they would consider Scotland in the single market if the UK asked for it (no chance of Westminster asking for it)

The EU are quite clear- in the single market means following the rules of the market, no cherry picking

I am waiting on the court case happening at present, once that ends we will know where we all stand

https://twitter.com/PeoplesAS30?s=20

Section 30 Court case

 

[Baddegg]

One last question @baldelectrician, flogging dead horses and all that...What difference do you see with Scotland and Westminster or Scotland and Brussels?......same horse different jockey I’d have said....

 

[baldelectrician]

One last question @baldelectrician, flogging dead horses and all that...What difference do you see with Scotland and Westminster or Scotland and Brussels?......same horse different jockey I’d have said....

Westminster says take it or leave it to Scotland, they can add, remove powers from Scotland at any time and as we speak they are denying democracy by denying the Scottish Parliament a referendum despite them voting for it.
They can even abolish the Scottish Parliament tomorrow without any say by Scots

The Westminster relationship is that of master and serf- we CANNOT leave any time we want but must seek their approval, a bit like a relationship with domestic abuse.

How would you feel if your daughter (or son) was in a relationship with another party and they controlled all the money, power and were refusing them stay?
Welcome to Scotland

The EU is not perfect (by a long way) but at least the UK could leave when they want and could have a referendum when THE UK decided to have one
Scotland will also have a veto- something we do not have currently

For example-
The other UK governments have expressed concerns (Scotland even voted against legislation and saying NO was deemed as consent by Westminster) about many things, this has been ignored by the UK Government

The SNP got elected in Scotland (last Westminster election) with a higher share of the vote in Scotland and a higher % of the seats then the Conservatives got all over the UK.
This means (in UK 'universe') that the Conservatives have a 'mandate' but the SNP have no 'mandate' in an election where they specifically put a referendum in the manifesto.

Compare that to the EU.
The EU have said they stand 'fully behind Ireland' and have told the UK that they are not negotiating with Ireland but with the EU.
The EU know a hard Brexit will not be best but they are prepared to take a hit for a member state- the UK ignore the views and opinions of their nations and regions

 

[Baddegg]

Bit low mate comparing the relationship to domestic abuse, but let’s leave that for another time.....as for leaving the EU anytime you like don’t kid yourself....Greece tried it but we’re essentially starved and scared away from the idea and Scotland for all frankies lies won’t be much more of a financial powerhouse than the other small eu nations, the only reason the uk could pull it off was because of the financial clout we hold, the eu will command you and will not let you leave!...they will wrap it all up in pretty paper but they’ll ensure you’ll be deep in hock to em......wise man once said you’re better off owing a million pounds than a hundred as the banks are less likely to foreclose, the eu is the same but in reverse, the cost of Scotland leaving they bosom would ruin her and they’ll make sure of it......do you see a hard border then or can you see the eu allowing free flowing goods across.....England wales and Northern Ireland will be rubbing our hands together in that scenario....free trade with the rest of the world and cheap goods from Europe!.....? imagine all the goods coming into uk ports and straight over the border and back into the eu!......or do you think bernier et all havnt considered that?
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Bit low mate comparing the relationship to domestic abuse, but let’s leave that for another time.....as for leaving the EU anytime you like don’t kid yourself....Greece tried it but we’re essentially starved and scared away from the idea and Scotland for all frankies lies won’t be much more of a financial powerhouse than the other small eu nations, the only reason the uk could pull it off was because of the financial clout we hold, the eu will command you and will not let you leave!...they will wrap it all up in pretty paper but they’ll ensure you’ll be deep in hock to em......wise man once said you’re better off owing a million pounds than a hundred as the banks are less likely to foreclose, the eu is the same but in reverse, the cost of Scotland leaving they bosom would ruin her and they’ll make sure of it......do you see a hard border then or can you see the eu allowing free flowing goods across.....England wales and Northern Ireland will be rubbing our hands together in that scenario....free trade with the rest of the world and cheap goods from Europe!.....? imagine all the goods coming into uk ports and straight over the border and back into the eu!......or do you think bernier et all havnt considered that?

A quick research shows that nearly a million people born in Scotland live in England and nearly half a million people born in England live in Scotland....do you propose passports and visas to visit family members in future.....ultimately for all the politicians bluster this is about people....real life ordinary people.....I think frankie forgets this with her obsession......anyway it’s been great debating with ya and I look forward to your reply but that’s it for me now mate we’ll have to agree to disagree and hope you never catch me in Scotland.....
Ps....my real name is scott ? oh the irony ????

 

[baldelectrician]

Bit low mate comparing the relationship to domestic abuse, but let’s leave that for another time.....as for leaving the EU anytime you like don’t kid yourself....Greece tried it but we’re essentially starved and scared away from the idea and Scotland for all frankies lies won’t be much more of a financial powerhouse than the other small eu nations, the only reason the uk could pull it off was because of the financial clout we hold, the eu will command you and will not let you leave!...they will wrap it all up in pretty paper but they’ll ensure you’ll be deep in hock to em......wise man once said you’re better off owing a million pounds than a hundred as the banks are less likely to foreclose, the eu is the same but in reverse, the cost of Scotland leaving they bosom would ruin her and they’ll make sure of it......do you see a hard border then or can you see the eu allowing free flowing goods across.....England wales and Northern Ireland will be rubbing our hands together in that scenario....free trade with the rest of the world and cheap goods from Europe!.....? imagine all the goods coming into uk ports and straight over the border and back into the eu!......or do you think bernier et all havnt considered that?
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A quick research shows that nearly a million people born in Scotland live in England and nearly half a million people born in England live in Scotland....do you propose passports and visas to visit family members in future.....ultimately for all the politicians bluster this is about people....real life ordinary people.....I think frankie forgets this with her obsession......anyway it’s been great debating with ya and I look forward to your reply but that’s it for me now mate we’ll have to agree to disagree and hope you never catch me in Scotland.....
Ps....my real name is scott ? oh the irony ????

If a relationship is one of equal partners then it is mutual, if one partner exerts what is effectively controlling and coercive behaviour then it is unequal and controlling

On the last point - you have no point.
Before the EU there was a common travel area (all the British Isles- including the Republic of Ireland) where people from each part could live, work vote etc.
That existed before the EU and it will continue

There are NO passports and visas to visit people in Eire now and there will not be in the future (this is something that has been agreed between the UK and the Republic of Ireland / EU).

This is another scare story brought up ad infinitum (just like the fiscal deficit to join the EU- which applies to the Euro; not the EU)

I am happy to disagree with you, but the main point you have not answered....

Why does the Scottish Parliament not have the right to decide when and if there should be a referendum?

 

[Baddegg]

If a relationship is one of equal partners then it is mutual, if one partner exerts what is effectively controlling and coercive behaviour then it is unequal and controlling

On the last point - you have no point.
Before the EU there was a common travel area (all the British Isles- including the Republic of Ireland) where people from each part could live, work vote etc.
That existed before the EU and it will continue

There are NO passports and visas to visit people in Eire now and there will not be in the future (this is something that has been agreed between the UK and the Republic of Ireland / EU).

This is another scare story brought up ad infinitum (just like the fiscal deficit to join the EU- which applies to the Euro; not the EU)

I am happy to disagree with you, but the main point you have not answered....

Why does the Scottish Parliament not have the right to decide when and if there should be a referendum?

I think it comes down to stability mate.....they wanted a vote and got one......something changed and you want another vote.....at what point do you stop voting or calling for votes to have votes....they’ll always be a loser that’s democracy....and things will always change that’s life.....@midwest nailed it earlier you’ve not even given it a try yet!