LSF, is there a regulatory requirement?

[GBDamo]

I've been installing this stuff for years in commercial settings, it seems a no brainer.

For the first time, today, a client questioned its requirement and, to be honest I cant find anything in black and white to back up my assertion.

I know the advantages, and tried explaining these but he's adamant if its not legally required, he don't want it.

In this case the peace of mind would amount to ~£150 in a 1/2million pound project.

So, have I been talking gonads or is there something more concrete?

 

[Dustydazzler]

We have been using LSF for everything other than domestic and I have never had anyone question it

That said if someone asked me for the regs number which calls for LSF cable

 

[Julie.]

Nope, no legal requirement, except in particular circumstances.

This is only where std PVC is unsuitable for whatever reason.

I usually specify PVC, for cost reasons, but of course would accept/prefer lsf if the overall cost was the same/lower - depending upon the assessment of the bid.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Not a reg but I just copied this of a cable manufactures webpage

• The low smoke generation ensures evacuation routes and signage remain visible during a fire.

 

[ipf]

When we use it, it's usually specified, although treated as standard if T+E is used in commercial installs.
As above, not a regulation requirement.

 

[Dustydazzler]

On any site I have worke dover the past 25 years be it commercial / industrial If you saw a sparks using pvc twin and earth to wire up a circuit you would class it as badgers rough as...

 

[ipf]

On any site I have worke dover the past 25 years be it commercial / industrial If you saw a sparks using pvc twin and earth to wire up a circuit you would class it as badgers rough as...

There can be different situations where it suits. In commercial kitchens it's usually conduit or swa but there are occasions where LSF T+E is more suitable, Maybe where whiteroc is being fitted, for instance. It meets requirements. Like any form of installation it could be classed as dog rough....depends on the class/state of installation, to me.

 

[telectrix]

pain in the arse to strip it though.

 

[ipf]

pain in the arse to strip it though.

.....and the fingers!

 

[GBDamo]

pain in the arse to strip it though.

Not with these...

If I get a year out of a pair I'm happy, treat em as a consumable but they are worth their weight in gold.

 

[ipf]

Not with these...

View attachment 99670


If I get a year out of a pair I'm happy, treat em as a consumable but they are worth their weight in gold.

Are they okay for stripping three foot or more of the stuff in a big 3 Phase DB?

 

[GBDamo]

Are they okay for stripping three foot of the stuff in a 3 Phase DB?

Yes, it take a fair tug to pull it off but it does come eventually.

Also leaves a nice neat end which helps to keep the cable under neat.

 

[pc1966]

Yes, it take a fair tug to pull it off but it does come eventually.

Also leaves a nice neat end which helps to keep the cable under neat.

Given patience you just strip a bit and pull it off, then repeat until enough.

I have the CK equivalent and find it great for T&E as it gives a neat finish on the sheath and you can use it on the conductors. However, the cable cutter/crimp bits between the handles are a pain as they sometime nip your palms, so I took an angle grinder to my ones to take the worst of the bits off. Utterly useless are crimping the R/B/Y style of insulated terminals anyway.

 

[ipf]

patience you just strip a bit and pull it off, then repeat until enough.

Quicker stripping via the earth core then, although I'm not struck on the method.

For grey I still strip with a controlled knife between earth and another core but that's ridiculously hard with LSF.

 

[GBDamo]

Quicker stripping via the earth core then, although I'm not struck on the method.

It's how it's been done for eons, it ain't called twin & stripper for nothing.

I'm a convert though, especially with TP boards in a tight cupboard when you can't fully extend you're arms, CPC ends up looking like spaghetti, and you spend far too much time trying to get your 2mm* earth sleave on.


* anyone using more that 2mm, on anything smaller than 10mm², has quite simply lost their way in life.

 

[pc1966]

There is something in 422.2.1 on cable characteristics (and trunking, etc) for smoke control but only for 'protected escape routes'.

 

[Julie.]

For grey I still strip with a controlled knife between earth and another core but that's ridiculously hard with LSF.

And completely frowned upon by the "authorities" i.e. training colleges and the like, use a knife in any circumstances and they throw a fit!!

It's they way I have always done it, and prefer it above anything else.

 

[ipf]

And completely frowned upon by the "authorities" i.e. training colleges and the like, use a knife in any circumstances and they throw a fit!!

It's they way I have always done it, and prefer it above anything else.

Yeah, I know That's because, these days, they don't trust a trades person with a ring spanner, let alone a pen knife.
You do it the way you're taught...or always have done, with a bit of skill and judgement.
When I see the disgraceful state of many terminal positions.....

I wonder how they advise stripping LSF swa, these days? Have a job on designing a special tool for that.

 

[ipf]

It's how it's been done for eons, it ain't called twin & stripper for nothing.

Don't I know it. Mind you, the only twin strippers I remember were at a small night club round our way, in the seventies.

 

[telectrix]

Not with these...

View attachment 99670


If I get a year out of a pair I'm happy, treat em as a consumable but they are worth their weight in gold.

got the identical one myself. Klein. still a pain with lsf. I do 2" at a time. also use a knife at times. (shh .H&E may be watching).