How to authenticate if an electrical installation certificate is genuine

[OldManJohn]

A rewire with change of consumer unit requires building control notification. If the person doing the work is a member of a self certification scheme, that you can check on the competent person register, then he can self certify the work and building control are only receiving paperwork.

If he is not a member of a scheme then Building control should be inspecting and testing as the work goes along, although if the workers are qualified building control may accept their qualifications and paperwork.



On the single signature form from BS7671 the electrician who signs it is certifying that the work has been designed, installed, inspected and tested by the signatory, it is not signed for anybody it is signed by somebody.
You could check if the builder is on the competent persons register or search for the electricians name but I am not confident you will find them.

You may need 15 posts before you can upload, not sure.

Cheers Richard
Ive checked the competent person register but he doesn't show up, surprise surprise.
So you are saying that if he has signed it he must have installed it too, is that correct?

 

[markythesparky]

Contractually if the cert is not a valid one then the job has still not been tested and certified. In addition the local authority probably have not been informed of the work (which you should receive another part p certificate of compliance for). Therefore the job has not been finished and you have no requirement to pay the last payment. He would not have a leg to stand on in a court of law.

 

[Richard Burns]

Building control (if they were informed) have 30 days from the date on the single signature certificate to get the building regs certificate to you.

If neither the builder nor the electrician nor any overall company are registered with a self certification scheme then it is worth asking the builder how notification to building control was made and when you would expect the Building regulations completion certificate.

Unfortunately if work is being done that requires building control notification, legally it is the householder who should ensure this is done, but in practice it is almost always the tradesman who actually does it for smaller jobs.

If you go to building control and say that this work was done then they may say that they would need to inspect it (for a fee) and, if dangerous, could ask for it to be redone, sorry.

 

[Richard Burns]

Cheers Richard
Ive checked the competent person register but he doesn't show up, surprise surprise.
So you are saying that if he has signed it he must have installed it too, is that correct?

Read the declaration just above the signature that should explain what he is signing for!!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

If there is no mention of a scheme or who they are registered with , then they are not approved to carry out domestic work . Go back to your'e builder and tell him your'e going to local authority building control, with the certs ..

sorry...but this is horse sh!t...
and again HOW MANY MORE TIMES???....you dont need to be a member of a scheme to carry out installation works on domestic properties....full stop!!
its about competency...thats it!!
either the person ordering the work can notify LABC themselves...or the electrician can do it....either on a direct with LABC basis.....or through a scheme provider...if they are a member of one...

 

[Richard Burns]

sorry...but this is horse sh!t...
and again HOW MANY MORE TIMES???....you dont need to be a member of a scheme to carry out installation works on domestic properties....full stop!!
its about competency...thats it!!
either the person ordering the work can notify LABC themselves...or the electrician can do it....either on a direct with LABC basis.....or through a scheme provider...if they are a member of one...

I have said that, in slightly different terms.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I have said that, in slightly different terms.

sorry about that Richard....i didn`t bother reading down all the posts....just came to that little slice of crap and decided to reply to it.....

 

[OldManJohn]

I understand Richard but if we didnt know about informing Building Control from the start and the builder never informed us this may be the case how are we supposed to know that? It seems very strange that he can basically do as he wants and then its left with us to sort out even when he has issued a bogus certificate which surely is illegal in itself as the person named on it has never been to our property!!

 

[onions1066]

Why don't you just use his outstanding payment to get it inspected then at least you know what your dealing with

 

[wigwam86]

Glenns parks right! Im sorry to say it olmanjon but i think youve been had by cowboys. Dont feel bad though. ive helped a handful of people this has happened to. My advice would be find yourself a trusted, well established electrician and explain what has happened. Also contact building control and explain the circumstances. BC WILL NOT TAKE ANY ACTION AGAINST YOU FOR NOT NOTIFYING ABOUT RENOVATION. Their usally quite sympathetic and helpful.

I hope the standard of work they left you with isnt to bad and will not need ripping out.

Good luck

 

[OldManJohn]

sorry...but this is horse sh!t...
and again HOW MANY MORE TIMES???....you dont need to be a member of a scheme to carry out installation works on domestic properties....full stop!!
its about competency...thats it!!
either the person ordering the work can notify LABC themselves...or the electrician can do it....either on a direct with LABC basis.....or through a scheme provider...if they are a member of one...

But either way he should have informed Buildiing Control from the start and he hasnt, the reason in that is that the guy doing most of his electrical work is not qualified and surely Building Control require this at least?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I understand Richard but if we didnt know about informing Building Control from the start and the builder never informed us this may be the case how are we supposed to know that? It seems very strange that he can basically do as he wants and then its left with us to sort out even when he has issued a bogus certificate which surely is illegal in itself as the person named on it has never been to our property!!

well....not really...theres loads of `high flyers` about who thought they knew about electrics....
just thank the good lord you wern`t targeted by `barry bathroom fitter`..or `kevin kitchen installer`..lol....

 

[Richard Burns]

It is difficult and you obviously trust the professional whom you are employing to do a good job, unfortunately does not always turn out well.
It is probably not strictly illegal to issue a bogus certificate, certainly total cowboy, not professional, dangerous and against the wiring regulations, etc.
The illegal bit is the failure to notify building control, but it is worth checking that he hasn't notified, just in case:nonod:.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

But either way he should have informed Buildiing Control from the start and he hasnt, the reason in that is that the guy doing most of his electrical work is not qualified and surely Building Control require this at least?

no John...its about competency in this game mate...
relevent certs and/or experience is a way of proving competency of course....
you had the right to know who you were employing and wether..or not those person/s had the relevent experience, technical/working knowledge to carry out install/alteration to your property....
i understand how you would just expect notification to LABC to be part of the package yes?...i mean did the person/s carrying out the works discuss this with you as part of the deal?

 

[OldManJohn]

Ok guys thanks for your help on this, I'll sleep on it and decide what to do tomorrow.

Cheers
John

 

[GLENNSPARK]

It is difficult and you obviously trust the professional whom you are employing to do a good job, unfortunately does not always turn out well.
It is probably not strictly illegal to issue a bogus certificate, certainly total cowboy, not professional, dangerous and against the wiring regulations, etc.
The illegal bit is the failure to notify building control, but it is worth checking that he hasn't notified, just in case:nonod:.

oh i dont know about that one Richard....if its autographed...then it becomes legally binding does it not....

 

[Richard Burns]

oh i dont know about that one Richard....if its autographed...then it becomes legally binding does it not....

On a contractual basis I think so

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Glenns parks right! Im sorry to say it olmanjon but i think youve been had by cowboys. Dont feel bad though. ive helped a handful of people this has happened to. My advice would be find yourself a trusted, well established electrician and explain what has happened. Also contact building control and explain the circumstances. BC WILL NOT TAKE ANY ACTION AGAINST YOU FOR NOT NOTIFYING ABOUT RENOVATION. Their usally quite sympathetic and helpful.

I hope the standard of work they left you with isnt to bad and will not need ripping out.

Good luck

well...i think the most this chap can hope for is an ECR...and if everything has been plastered up (cable runs covered etc)....then there may be a few unverifieds on it as well...
he`ll have to see what turns up....

 

[OldManJohn]

no John...its about competency in this game mate...
relevent certs and/or experience is a way of proving competency of course....
you had the right to know who you were employing and wether..or not those person/s had the relevent experience, technical/working knowledge to carry out install/alteration to your property....
i understand how you would just expect notification to LABC to be part of the package yes?...i mean did the person/s carrying out the works discuss this with you as part of the deal?

Yes we had a meeting with him about the schedule/deadlines etc so the project was discussed in detail but we were told building regs etc etc werent needed as it wasnt a new build or extension it was just knocking some internal walls down and moving some sockets etc. We didnt realise we needed a new fuse box until the first fix was underway and two cookers and an electric hob (all extras from what we had previously) were being wired for and then we were told we'd need a bigger fuse box so we were not aware anyone else needed to be involved.

 

[OldManJohn]

well...i think the most this chap can hope for is an ECR...and if everything has been plastered up (cable runs covered etc)....then there may be a few unverifieds on it as well...
he`ll have to see what turns up....

Whats an ECR? the job is now complete and looks great but these guys made it hard work.