no earth

[sima24]

Hi, been to look at a rewire today and no earth connection at all. Tried to contact supply company to enquire weather the property is connected to a pme system but no joy after holding most the afternoon. I presume supply company doesnt have to supply an earth but just wondering if they would upgrade to pme or not? Or possibly it is a pme system but earth has been disconnected at some point (no sign of pme label tho) any views appreciated. Thanks.

 

[skydog1]

I don't know what type of property or building, but can you not make it a TT system with an inspection pit and earth rod.

 

[sima24]

Yes thats the plan if their is no earth connection. Just seems strange for the location and age of the property that their appears to be no earth or rod currently installed.

 

[Toonlad]

Test it as 2 wire test. Or look in street and see what they have done to cables, are they still overhead, but not earthed down the poles every so often. Go knock on a few doors in the street, and explain what your trying to establish.

 

[chilliwilly]

Its one of the biggest pitfalls when quoting for or carrying out electrical work edpecially in older properties.

The biggest excuse they use is "its looped of next door and they neen to be in for us to pme it".

Under the old 16th edition, it wasn't reccomended that a smoke alarm should be connected to an rcd. And I would mention that to them that if there were a loss arising from smoke alarms not working due to loss of power and flat batteries. They may be called in court to share or take the blame for not supplying a reliable power supply intended for public use.

Within a week I would have a date for them to do a pme. The trouble is they keep changing the number for the network operator.

 

[Knobhead]

Its one of the biggest pitfalls when quoting for or carrying out electrical work edpecially in older properties.

The biggest excuse they use is "its looped of next door and they neen to be in for us to pme it".

Under the old 16th edition, it wasn't reccomended that a smoke alarm should be connected to an rcd. And I would mention that to them that if there were a loss arising from smoke alarms not working due to loss of power and flat batteries. They may be called in court to share or take the blame for not supplying a reliable power supply intended for public use.

Within a week I would have a date for them to do a pme. The trouble is they keep changing the number for the network operator.

You in the right thread?
Looped supply
Smokes
16th

 

[chilliwilly]

Yes are you?

 

[sima24]

Thanks. Would it be possible to temp connect an earth cable into the neutral henley thats already their and perform a ze test?

 

[MDJ]

You said there is no earth, have you established what system is there? TNS etc? connecting to a neutral if you have no idea what the earthing arrangement is even if the reading isn't there could be opening a can of worms, have you got a picture of the cut out and meter we can look at before you kill someone?

 

[sima24]

Thats the whole point of the question. As already stated their is no earth connection or rod, so im pressuming its a tt system in which case i will rod, the aim of my question is is it possible to test just incase it is a tncs system and someone over the years has disconnected main cpc

 

[MDJ]

well it's pretty easy to determine whether it is tt or a tns, pretty straight forward, if tt then you wasted your time on the phone, get a rod in and go from there, if tns you should know if an earth is available by looking at the incommer and using a loop tester.

 

[MDJ]

Thats the whole point of the question. As already stated their is no earth connection or rod, so im pressuming its a tt system in which case i will rod, the aim of my question is is it possible to test just incase it is a tncs system and someone over the years has disconnected main cpc

I doubt its TNCs, very unlikely, you would know by the incommer cut out unless very old.

 

[sima24]

Thanks. Yes it is very old and im 90% sure its a tt system, however didnt know if their was a simple way of testing to confirm, as iv never come across this situation before

 

[Des 56]

the aim of my question is is it possible to test just incase it is a tncs system and someone over the years has disconnected main cpc

No

You need the supplier to tell you


The cost with Western power was £90 and they fit the piece of earth and a block
Alternatively do what I did,d fit your own piece of earth and block and they connect for £35

 

[sima24]

Cheers, yeh i tried that today, no joy. Maybe i will try their sales line tomorrow, sure i will get straight through

 

[Mork]

Please dont connect an earth to the neutral to test for Ze, whats the point you may aswell test between live & neutral its the same thing.If its a TNS do a loop test between the cable sheath & live, for TNCS do a loop test between live and the earth terminal provided on the cut out
,no reading no PME connection. Sounds to me its a TT system & poss using the water main as the source of earthing!

 

[chilliwilly]

Like mdj says stick a rod in the ground, get a reading and see if you need any more rods.

 

[Guitarist]

Cheers, yeh i tried that today, no joy. Maybe i will try their sales line tomorrow, sure i will get straight through

You should not be talking to the sales line. Press whichever button gets you through to the power cut dept, and from there you should be able to talk to someone regarding getting an engineer out within 48 hrs to sort the earthing out. I find it strange that there is no sign of an earth at all, past or present...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Its one of the biggest pitfalls when quoting for or carrying out electrical work edpecially in older properties.

The biggest excuse they use is "its looped of next door and they neen to be in for us to pme it".

Under the old 16th edition, it wasn't reccomended that a smoke alarm should be connected to an rcd. And I would mention that to them that if there were a loss arising from smoke alarms not working due to loss of power and flat batteries. They may be called in court to share or take the blame for not supplying a reliable power supply intended for public use.

Within a week I would have a date for them to do a pme. The trouble is they keep changing the number for the network operator.

had this one more than once....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Like mdj says stick a rod in the ground, get a reading and see if you need any more rods.

or alternatively you could do it right...

get 3X 5/8" rods 2 connectors and a striking top...

dig a hole where you intend to site the rod (about a meter away from the building so as not to intercept any foundation/building rubble)...you dig the hole where you intend to site the rod to ensure there are no buried services there....
once you have verified its safe to drive rods down...start doing so...once the first rod is in connect the second rod onto the first and carry on driving it in...
once the second rod is in get a test on it....
you may not need the third rod...if not then the wholesalers should accept it back as long as it hasn`t been used/damaged....