What will the outcome be of my assessment?

HappyHippyDad · Aug 22, 2018

Paignton pete said:
Then they are wrong.

Sorry that doesn't help your situation.

Go with napit, nic or Elecsa. They may say it's ok.

telectrix said:
they're bloody wrong then. part Mvol. 1. section 1.18.....mention of socket and switch heights only applies where clients are "persons with limited reach."

Murdoch said:
I would take the assessor to the site, on the day, making sure I had the latest copy of Part M, printed out with me ........... so when the assessor says the heights MUST comply with Part M, you can ask him to confirm where in the document - then hand it to him..........

We ALL know part M ONLY applies to new builds....................

Andy78 said:
Argue your case. They are wrong. They tried telling me that external lighting was notifiable until I proved them wrong.

Murdoch said:
So we can review :

Building work:

Regulation 4

b

(ii)

is the most relevant statement IMHO

And more to the point, we have the DCLG to blame for ALL these hopelessly worded documents ........... which I expect will be commented on during the Grenfell Enquiry

Part M, section 0, 0.2 says that part M refers to new dwellings AND dwellings undergoing material alteration.

I guess Stroma class a rewire as 'material alteration'. What exactly does material alteration mean?

Spoon · Aug 22, 2018

happyhippydad said:
Part M, section 0, 0.2 says that part M refers to new dwellings AND dwellings undergoing material alteration

But if the section mentioning sockets heights states it is for 'new buildings' then then part about 'dwellings undergoing material alteration' does not apply to this part.

Andy78 · Aug 22, 2018

happyhippydad said:
Part M, section 0, 0.2 says that part M refers to new dwellings AND dwellings undergoing material alteration.

I guess Stroma class a rewire as 'material alteration'. What exactly does material alteration mean?

Material alteration is alteration of the building for purpose of use, or significant alteration such as a large extension, house being chopped into flats, or a bungalow being made into a 2 floor dwelling.

I would contact your labc to ask for help with this definition and maybe ask for something in writing to help with your assessment.

HappyHippyDad · Aug 22, 2018

Spoon said:
But if the section mentioning sockets heights states it is for 'new buildings' then then part about 'dwellings undergoing material alteration' does not apply to this part.

I cant see that the section mentioning socket heights says anything about new buildings, so I don't think I can use that argument.

westward10 · Aug 22, 2018

Forget it and make no mention of it. From the posts on this thread I see no one stating the heights apply on a rewire, it is unanimous.

Nigel · Aug 22, 2018

happyhippydad said:
Part M, section 0, 0.2 says that part M refers to new dwellings AND dwellings undergoing material alteration.

I guess Stroma class a rewire as 'material alteration'. What exactly does material alteration mean?

'Material Alteration' means a building that is changing its use. For example a shop unit becoming a flat. Not changing the materials of the electrical installation.

Nigel · Aug 22, 2018

Part P and Part M are clear. New build only and on re-wires they can be positioned 'no worse' than they are currently.

Midwest · Aug 22, 2018

essex said:
Part P and Part M are clear. New build only and on re-wires they can be positioned 'no worse' than they are currently.

Thats not quite true as I'm aware. The Documents apply to all building work, with some exemptions.

Part M would not apply to an alteration or extension to an existing dwelling. However, as I and others have already suggested a major refurbishment of a dwelling, e.g. completely renovated for example, requiring structural change, then Part M and others may be applied. There are 'limits on application'.

To say it applies only to new builds, is not quite correct IMO. Sorry if I'm being picky.

I think we are all agreed that in this instance a rewire does not constitute material alteration. But HHD will need to discuss this with his scheme. Its his assessment with them.

Toneyz · Aug 22, 2018

happyhippydad said:
Part M, section 0, 0.2 says that part M refers to new dwellings AND dwellings undergoing material alteration.

I guess Stroma class a rewire as 'material alteration'. What exactly does material alteration mean?

When you totally gut the house, knock down walls, change the internal layout.

Octopus · Aug 22, 2018

anthonybragg said:
When you totally gut the house, knock down walls, change the internal layout.

So where are the Buildings Regs definitions listed ?

It would be SO EASY for the DCLG to avoid all these issues

Midwest · Aug 22, 2018

Murdoch said:
So where are the Buildings Regs definitions listed ?

It would be SO EASY for the DCLG to avoid all these issues

Apparently somewhere material alteration (other than house to B&B e.g.) is defined; regulation 5. I've gone off to cook tea now. Can't be arsed anymore.

Bob Geldoff1234 · Aug 22, 2018

I had my NIC assessment a month ago and took the inspector to a full rewire that I had done.No mention what so ever of switch heights or socket heights which I kept the same as existing.I am glad I'm not in Stroma,they sound to be a real pain in the ---.

Toneyz · Aug 22, 2018

Murdoch said:
So where are the Buildings Regs definitions listed ?

It would be SO EASY for the DCLG to avoid all these issues

I wasn't referring to a Building Regs list just my interpretation.

johnduffell · Aug 22, 2018

If you read part M carefully you will see what the applicability of the sockets is with respect to material alterations.

where M4(1) is the regulation dealing with premises where people with reduced mobility may visit.

Regarding "material alterations", it's self explanatory. Material meaning "has relevance to the compliance status" and alteration means "change made". So if you move a socket it's an alteration, if you keep it in the same place it isn't. So you can't move the socket down but you can move it up or keep in the same place.

Regarding "new dwellings" those would be either complete new build, or change of use e.g. from office or retail to domestic accomodation.

In summary - rewires/extensions - same or better. conversions from non domestic or complete rebuilds - fully compliant heights.

Hope that helps!

HappyHippyDad · Aug 22, 2018

westward10 said:
Forget it and make no mention of it. From the posts on this thread I see no one stating the heights apply on a rewire, it is unanimous.

Thats pretty much what I've decided.
I'm going to use the rewire as its a god damn art work and they damn well better praise it rather than batter me for socket heights!

westward10 · Aug 22, 2018

Let us know how you get on, good luck.

Toneyz · Aug 22, 2018

Is the assessor the same person that you have been in correspondence with at Stroma?

Wilko · Aug 22, 2018

happyhippydad said:
...I'm going to use the rewire as its an art work and they better praise it ...

Forget the Assessor, you know whose opinion matters the most - pics please

.

HappyHippyDad · Aug 22, 2018

Wilko said:
Forget the Assessor, you know whose opinion matters the most - pics please .

I don't usually post pics as you know you'll get a battering as theres always something glaringly obvious that you've missed, but heh ho.... here goes

.
Before (1)

After (1)

New cables clipped to boards rather than laid across joists..jpg

Before (2)

After (2)

After-hob ignition and extractor fan.jpg

Before (3)

After (4)

Always struggle to get the neutrals looking neat!

Ps.. I've written off to Stroma now, specifically mentioning 0.2 and 0.11 of Part M regarding 'material alterations' and the fact that a rewire isn't classed as a material alteration. I'll let you all know what the official response is.

Octopus · Aug 22, 2018

What the scams need to assess is compliance with BS 7671 , part p and whether sparks are aware of the other building regs ...

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Andy78

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Nigel

Nigel

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Toneyz

Octopus

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Toneyz

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Toneyz

Wilko

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Octopus

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