2x Consumer unit change

[bartkusal]

Hello everyone, sorry but this one will be a long one. I am fairly new here, I used this amazing forum nearly everyday for 3 years now, but that will be my first post, this forum with its geniusmembers helped me through my courses, which I past with distinctions all theway. I done C&G 2330, C&G2382, C&G2391, C&G2399 and Part P course.So thank you all for your contribution..
I am hunting for some jobs to use it as my assessment for theregistration with those Part P bodies. Basically I was asked to price the job. The house is big four storey split in two, therewas a fire, I had to look for extent of damage and price up for rectification.Checked the premises, the only damage is 2 consumer units burned out, my mainconcern is cables, they all burned out and would be too short, so I will needto somehow extend them (maybe by crimping), or should I better replace thecables from CU to the first points (the later will change the price considerablyas there is a lot of cct). And do you think it could be more damage to thecables which I cannot see?
So I would like your comments on anypart of this thread, thanks in advance for your great contributions
Below is a copy of my letter witch Iintend to send to the client, there is more info on the installation, so feelfree to comment on anything you like, I am ready for some toasting guys, becauseI think the only way to learn is the hard one….


Dear client, After what I seentoday at the premises, my main concern is the lack of consideration on thedesign stage of the installation, I am very surprised that this was not pickedup when you had the installation done 3 years ago as when I was told it tookplace.
Basically you have a property split in two:
1. Basement and Ground floors
2. First and Second floors
Both of them havetheir own supply meter and own 60 A distributors cut out fuses. Each of themfeeding (as much as I could see from burn out equipment) 15 way 100 A splitload consumer units??? This is absolutely not acceptable. Don’t want to be tootechnical, so what I am saying is that your load demand doesn’t match thesupply characteristics from your electricity supplier.
So taking that in consideration you must contact yourelectricity supplier and ask to upgrade your main cut out fuses to at least 80A or in fact 100 A each , stating thatelectrician strongly advised you to do that.
And we on other hand can do your side of installation.Having checked the extent of fire we can confirm that due to that you don’tneed a full rewire. We will need:
· Tracing and identifying what each circuit isfeeding (which can take fair amount of our time considering the size of theinstallation and all the labelling and identifications burnt out)
· To replace two consumer units with all mainswitches, RCD’s and MCB’s ,
· Extend or maybe replace up to the firstpoint the burnt out cables,
· Replace the damaged fluorescent light fitting inthe main entrance and maybe some smoke detectors.

Taking into account that you have an installation as new as3 years old and presumably no faults which we might need to rectify as we go,with all installation certificates supplied to us on our request, the price wecan estimate is( ),alllabour and materials included. Materials will be well trusted MK make. Anyextra works which might come up after we inspect and test your installationwill bring extra charges, but let’s hope that it will be straight forward andeverything will be covered by the price above.

So looking forward to hearing from you

Regards:

 

[telectrix]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Both of them havetheir own supply meter and own 60 A distributors cut out fuses. Each of themfeeding (as much as I could see from burn out equipment) 15 way 100 A splitload consumer units??? This is absolutely not acceptable. Don’t want to be tootechnical, so what I am saying is that your load demand doesn’t match thesupply characteristics from your electricity supplier.

doesn't matter what the main switch rating on the CU is, it's the load thast it supplies that counts. after applying diversity. and please edit that letter before sending. put some spaces between words.​

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Sorry about the spaces, they where there its just when I presed post thats how it came out.
The demand is massive believe me, there is offices at the top floor,living 1st floor ground floor kithen and other facilities,and the Mosque in the basement, aircondining units everywhere,supply to the outbuildings x 2, and there is about 20 people at anyone time in the building, you know how the indian people like to coock , there is 4 electrical showers throuhout. Will need to identify cct's first for aplying diversity, but I am sure well over 60 A. Sorry for my lenguage , its not my first ,in fact english is only my third lenguage....

 

[telectrix]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

my apologies then. work out the load and then advise a supply upgrage. this will have to be done by DNO.

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

I could even see 3 x 40A mcb's on one cu, I have some pictures,will try to post them now.....

 

[Des 56]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Too dramatic
If they have already had the trauma of a fire,they will not be receptive to further drama

I would redraft that letter, minus all the drama, and give reassurance about the remedial works that will overcome the listed problems caused by the fire
I am a spark and you almost frightened the wits out of me

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

sorry the pfotos are in the phone have no cable to connevt to pc, looks like will need to do one more visit,to work out the load, but what about the cables I asked about in original post, would you extend them or replace them to the first point,and is there could be more damage which I can not see...thanks for your replies.....

 

[telectrix]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

only you can see the extent of the damage. i would rewire to first point if it's not too costly , and consider extending cables as long as you are certain that you've cut all the damage.

 

[GaryM]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

It would be all round a better job if you were to replace the first leg of each damaged circuit but you'll need to verify that there isn't any further damage by carrying out an EICR.

 

[snowhead]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Way too many words for a fairly simple situation.


Dear Client,

After a cursery inspection we have found;

2 Consumer units fire damaged.
Cables connected to the C.U are damaged.
Fluorescent light in main entrance damaged.
Possible damage to smoke detectors

To bring the installation back up to standard will require;

1: New consumer units, including all MCB and RCDs. Also calculations to assess whether the incoming supplies are suitable.

2: Individual Circuits from each of these will need to be traced tested and assessed to determine how far back to replace the damaged cables. Initial view is fairly local to the Consumer unit.

3: Replace damaged fluorescent fitting and lamp, and diffuser (if originally fitted)

4: Verify smoke detectors work, replace where required.

Extra as yet unidentified work that may be required will be notified to you for your approval.


Full test certs etc supplied on completion.

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

thats exactly what I am afraid of, to need actaualy do EICR, before even giving the price,thats abit too much work for free I suppose, what you guys do in them situations, obviously you have to recover that cost somehow...

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Love you simpliness, this is something I strugling to learn, but I know that this skill have to be with me if I am about to work on my own and comunicate directly with clients. thanks much appreciated
[QUOTE=snowhead;543124]Way too many words for a fairly simple situation.


Dear Client,

After a cursery inspection we have found;

2 Consumer units fire damaged.
Cables connected to the C.U are damaged.
Fluorescent light in main entrance damaged.
Possible damage to smoke detectors

To bring the installation back up to standard will require;

1: New consumer units, including all MCB and RCDs. Also calculations to assess whether the incoming supplies are suitable.

2: Individual Circuits from each of these will need to be traced tested and assessed to determine how far back to replace the damaged cables. Initial view is fairly local to the Consumer unit.

3: Replace damaged fluorescent fitting and lamp, and diffuser (if originally fitted)

4: Verify smoke detectors work, replace where required.

Extra as yet unidentified work that may be required will be notified to you for your approval.


Full test certs etc supplied on completion.[/QUOTE]

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Point taken, thank you...

Too dramatic
If they have already had the trauma of a fire,they will not be receptive to further drama

I would redraft that letter, minus all the drama, and give reassurance about the remedial works that will overcome the listed problems caused by the fire
I am a spark and you almost frightened the wits out of me

 

[Guest55]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

What caused the fire ?
Are they insured ?
Surely the insurance company will want a EICR before agreeing to any works ?
I wouldnt replace a single cable until i'd carried out some insulation tests first.

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

I was thinking down them lines, I asked what insurance said about what coused the fire cos obviously there was some fault of some sort(Cable size too small, loose connection in CU,faulty MCB,etc.) you name it ,thermal there was some source of heat there, or ( can actualy mcb explode on very high fault currents) ,....no answers they just simply want my opinion on whats needed

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

dont know is this question is ethical or not, but what you guys would charge on this job.....

 

[Guest55]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

So it was an electrical fire then ?
If they cant give you any answers as to the cause of the fire or if they are even insured in the first place then i'd be very suspicious of getting involved.
To provide an accurate assessment of the situation you need ALL the information from the customer.

 

[Guest55]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

............... but what you guys would charge on this job.....

Impossible to say unless a full inspection is carried out.
I'd be looking for a more straight-forward job to use for a scheme assessment to be honest.

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

i think you right biff55, they where a bit too secretive about the whole thing from begining, I could smell something stincking here, I probably fallow your advice and find some stright forward job ( not that easy obviously) for my assesment...thanks again....

 

[Guest55]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

i think you right biff55, they where a bit too secretive about the whole thing from begining, I could smell something stincking here, I probably fallow your advice and find some stright forward job ( not that easy obviously) for my assesment...thanks again....

No worries pal , it sounds to me that they know damn well what caused the fire , they may even be partly responsible
for it , and they may not have proper insurance cover anyway.
Walk away , the whole thing sounds like bad news.

 

[telectrix]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

if your instinct tells you there's something fishy, walk away , or you could end up well out of pocket. i would explain that before you can quote the job, you need to do a thorough inspection and test first. this is chargeable and to be paid on completion of testing. (you don't get surgeons cutting someone open before a full and accurate diagnosis has been completed.) then, as long as you have been paid for the diagnosis, you can go ahead and prpare a quote.

 

[bartkusal]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Thats it very valuable advice telectrix, thanks a lot.

 

[snowhead]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Love you simpliness, this is something I strugling to learn, but I know that this skill have to be with me if I am about to work on my own and comunicate directly with clients. thanks much appreciated

You can have that one for free.

For the future, follow the same format.

State what you found, in simple terms and few words so a non technical customer can understand.
State what you propose to do.
List individual items, don't ramble on.

 

[Top Cat]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Way too many words for a fairly simple situation.


Dear Client,

After a cursery inspection we have found;

2 Consumer units fire damaged.
Cables connected to the C.U are damaged.
Fluorescent light in main entrance damaged.
Possible damage to smoke detectors

To bring the installation back up to standard will require;

1: New consumer units, including all MCB and RCDs. Also calculations to assess whether the incoming supplies are suitable.

2: Individual Circuits from each of these will need to be traced tested and assessed to determine how far back to replace the damaged cables. Initial view is fairly local to the Consumer unit.

3: Replace damaged fluorescent fitting and lamp, and diffuser (if originally fitted)

4: Verify smoke detectors work, replace where required.

Extra as yet unidentified work that may be required will be notified to you for your approval.


Full test certs etc supplied on completion.

Nice work snowhead. The only thing i would say is, somewhere in the letter you would need an estimate of costs.

 

[snowhead]

Re: 2x Concumer unit change

Nice work snowhead. The only thing i would say is, somewhere in the letter you would need an estimate of costs.

I assumed the O.P was O.K figuring that bit out himself.