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Discuss Strange RCD Problem in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

E

EWebster

Afternoon all.

I've got a problem with an RCD tripping that I can't get my head round.

Upstairs lights are tripping the RCD. I switch off the MCB, but still tripping. So you'd think it was an earth/neutral fault. Nope. I remove the earth and the neutral from the board, and it trips on Live only. Very strange.

>299 ohms IR on all configurations (L/E, L/N, E/N), so no shorts.

Borrowed neutral? Nope. I wired the house 2 years ago. All been fine until last week. Also, putting the circuit on the other side of the board doesn't solve it.

Faulty RCD? Nope. Tests fine, and tried another new one just to make sure.

Anyone got any ideas?


Best regards,

E
 
Not being funny mate how do you deduce it's the upstairs lighting that tripping your RCD
 
Afternoon all.

I've got a problem with an RCD tripping that I can't get my head round.

Upstairs lights are tripping the RCD. I switch off the MCB, but still tripping. So you'd think it was an earth/neutral fault. Nope. I remove the earth and the neutral from the board, and it trips on Live only. Very strange.

>299 ohms IR on all configurations (L/E, L/N, E/N), so no shorts.

Borrowed neutral? Nope. I wired the house 2 years ago. All been fine until last week. Also, putting the circuit on the other side of the board doesn't solve it.

Faulty RCD? Nope. Tests fine, and tried another new one just to make sure.

Anyone got any ideas?


Best regards,

E
whats the earthing arrangements?
 
Just getting my head around your problem, you have disconnected Line Neutral and cpc of the upstairs lighting, you may have a shared neutral via the landing light
 
Although you wired the house yourself 2 years ago, people are strange things and do all sorts of things when your not there.
Have they been doing anything they shouldn't have? Put up any new light fittings ?
Put a light in the attic ?
Been doing any drilling/ screwing lately.
I'm just thinking of something penetration and putting a fault somewhere
Or even been a bit shabby with a class 1 fitting and some neutral touching earth.
Just a thought.
 
Several answers:

Earthing is TT.
No work done on the electrics by the owner. I've checked everywhere and can't see any nails etc, and as I mentioned, IR is clear as a bell, so no shorts.
RCD trips when circuit on either side of the board. No shared neutral apparent.
RCD trips when Earth/Neutral are out of the board, but line is connected and live. Come of think of it, is that normal state?
 
Disconnected everything but the upstairs lights. Also put them through their own RCBO, and pops every time.

Just to be clear here, with the circuit N & E disconnected and L in this RCBO, and the board energized; are you saying you can't reset the RCBO?

Have you tried IR testing between L and the N & E bars in the board, with circuit N & E disconnected?
 
You need to do R1 + R2's at each light with the switch on to see if you have continuity.

I fixed a problem last year where the mice had eaten their way through both layers of insulation AND the copper - and it was the switch drop at fault!
 
Line to earth fault? Trips when line is connected and finds a path to earth through hallway switch which has cpc's from two circuits terminated inside it....

That occurred to me too. I removed the switch and cleared the wires to make sure.

I'll start dismantling the circuit bit by bit and testing. Luckily there is loft access to most of the circuit. Thought I'd ask and see if anyone had any helpful advice though, as it's not a problem I've come across before.

One other thing I forgot to mention - When the circuit is in place and NOT tripping (happens occasionally as it is an intermittent fault), the RCD will not trip when tested. I can get over 500mA through it from my Megger and not trip.
 
Have you carried out your insulation resistance tests with the cpc connected to the means of earthing.

Your line conductor may be shorting to a piece of earth metalwork.

Many thanks Foresite. I'll give that a go. A very helpful suggestion, unlike some others who should know better on this forum.

Best regards,

E.
 
Have you carried out your insulation resistance tests with the cpc connected to the means of earthing.

Your line conductor may be shorting to a piece of earth metalwork.

Many thanks Foresite. I'll give that a go. A very helpful suggestion, unlike some others who should know better on this forum.

Best regards,

E.

I would have thought that was pretty obvious.If you have disconnected the N and E and it still trips there must be a path for current to flow to cause an imbalance. Logical.
I'ts another 'RCD trips but it's all connected properly and all tests are fine and and the RCD has been replaced' thread.......well in that case it wont trip then!
 
it's as many as heinz, though.if only carlsberg made RCDs. lol.
 
Afternoon all.

I've got a problem with an RCD tripping that I can't get my head round.

Upstairs lights are tripping the RCD. I switch off the MCB, but still tripping. So you'd think it was an earth/neutral fault. Nope. I remove the earth and the neutral from the board, and it trips on Live only. Very strange.

>299 ohms IR on all configurations (L/E, L/N, E/N), so no shorts.

Borrowed neutral? Nope. I wired the house 2 years ago. All been fine until last week. Also, putting the circuit on the other side of the board doesn't solve it.

Faulty RCD? Nope. Tests fine, and tried another new one just to make sure.

Anyone got any ideas?


Best regards,

E
Must be a link from the earth on the upstairs circuit to an earth on another circuit, and there is a live or neutral to earth fault, if there is a switch on and light bulbs in lights then as there is an earth linked somewhere you will get a neutral or live to earth fault. Basic school boy testing is required now, all lamps out, all switches on, test between all cores and go from there.
 
Stated by a member of 4.5 years and a mere 57 posts!


So posts and years mean status now?


The reason behind this forum, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, is to help members with issues that other members may have experienced before. To flame or shoot down a member with a first reply just shows me what an egotistical and elitist member you are, and not worthy of any respect whatsoever.


Instead of berating and belittling those with issues, how about actually posting something useful? If you can’t do that, then why post at all? To start a reply with “How about calling a competent sparks”, or words to that effect, has absolutely no value. And yes, I am a competent sparks, thank you. You are welcome to form an alternative opinion, if valid, once you have known me personally and worked with me for a while.


I have no doubt you have contributed and helped many members over the years. I also have no doubt that I could run rings around you in several aspects of electrical, electronic or networking subjects, but I would hope that if you posted a question that you were having issues with, I’d reply with a sensible, helpful and mature response.


Wirepuller: I am very aware of how to test electrical installations. I also know how an RCD works. I posted to get other members view, and to help sort out a muddled head. If you have never had an issue where you need to bounce ideas off your peers and then the answer turns out to POSSIBLY be relatively simple, then you are obviously a better man than most.


To all those who have posted sensible and helpful comments, I thank you and will try out suggestions tomorrow.


Yours sincerely,


E
 
So posts and years mean status now?


The reason behind this forum, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, is to help members with issues that other members may have experienced before. To flame or shoot down a member with a first reply just shows me what an egotistical and elitist member you are, and not worthy of any respect whatsoever.


Instead of berating and belittling those with issues, how about actually posting something useful? If you can’t do that, then why post at all? To start a reply with “How about calling a competent sparks”, or words to that effect, has absolutely no value. And yes, I am a competent sparks, thank you. You are welcome to form an alternative opinion, if valid, once you have known me personally and worked with me for a while.


I have no doubt you have contributed and helped many members over the years. I also have no doubt that I could run rings around you in several aspects of electrical, electronic or networking subjects, but I would hope that if you posted a question that you were having issues with, I’d reply with a sensible, helpful and mature response.


Wirepuller: I am very aware of how to test electrical installations. I also know how an RCD works. I posted to get other members view, and to help sort out a muddled head. If you have never had an issue where you need to bounce ideas off your peers and then the answer turns out to POSSIBLY be relatively simple, then you are obviously a better man than most.


To all those who have posted sensible and helpful comments, I thank you and will try out suggestions tomorrow.


Yours sincerely,


E

OK, perhaps you would be good enough to post up the outcome.
 
So posts and years mean status now?


The reason behind this forum, and please do correct me if I'm wrong, is to help members with issues that other members may have experienced before. To flame or shoot down a member with a first reply just shows me what an egotistical and elitist member you are, and not worthy of any respect whatsoever.


Instead of berating and belittling those with issues, how about actually posting something useful? If you can’t do that, then why post at all? To start a reply with “How about calling a competent sparks”, or words to that effect, has absolutely no value. And yes, I am a competent sparks, thank you. You are welcome to form an alternative opinion, if valid, once you have known me personally and worked with me for a while.


I have no doubt you have contributed and helped many members over the years. I also have no doubt that I could run rings around you in several aspects of electrical, electronic or networking subjects, but I would hope that if you posted a question that you were having issues with, I’d reply with a sensible, helpful and mature response.


Wirepuller: I am very aware of how to test electrical installations. I also know how an RCD works. I posted to get other members view, and to help sort out a muddled head. If you have never had an issue where you need to bounce ideas off your peers and then the answer turns out to POSSIBLY be relatively simple, then you are obviously a better man than most.


To all those who have posted sensible and helpful comments, I thank you and will try out suggestions tomorrow.


Yours sincerely,


E

Maybe you should read the post again in full, pausing to take in the second sentence!
 
Any outside lights ?
Any other trades been in.
Plumbers don't mind running hot pipes close to cables, IR may show clear untill they heat up and touch.
Or is it lecky's that run cables too close to pies lol.
Did you take all neutrals out of the bar except the circuit at fault, or just open the MCB s to the others ?
 
Any outside lights ?
Any other trades been in.
Plumbers don't mind running hot pipes close to cables, IR may show clear untill they heat up and touch.
Or is it lecky's that run cables too close to pies lol.
Did you take all neutrals out of the bar except the circuit at fault, or just open the MCB s to the others ?

Plumbers ran pipes right next to my cables come to think of it!
As for neutrals, put the device on its own RCBO, so some cross contamination happening somewhere, whether earth (as mentioned in previous posts), or with neutral. Will investigate further tomorrow.
 
If the live is connected and and trips, it's finding it's way to earth somewhere to trip the rcd if the neutral and earth are disconnected, I would have though. I'd pay very close Trenton to every fitting upstairs and faceplates etc.
 
Good luck tomorrow,
Please let us know wen you sort it.
Not like that guy with the voltage in the shower. If you/we remember that one
 
Any outside lights ?
Any other trades been in.
Plumbers don't mind running hot pipes close to cables, IR may show clear untill they heat up and touch.
Or is it lecky's that run cables too close to pies lol.
Did you take all neutrals out of the bar except the circuit at fault, or just open the MCB s to the others ?

NEVER run cables next to pies. This should be a given. Daz
 
I sympathise with anyone who has a tripping RCD. To question the ability of anybody's failure to find a fault is d*ck waving of the highest order. I had a problem last early last year that went on for 6 months, and I didn't find the answer, but the customer did.

I had replaced 2 x fuseboards (3036) with RCD protected CU's. I did a complete PIR before even starting the job, that included full readings for each circuit. After I'd done the board changes I was asked to run electrics for a power shower to the 3rd floor guest bathroom.

I had this whole floor to myself so I set up complete with radio whilst I worked. It was then the RCD problem began, manifesting itself by my radio suddenly stopping. I would run down to the ground floor reset the RCD then maybe an hour or 2 later it would trip again.

Anyway I tested and commissioned the circuit and began to delve into the nuisance tripping. I retested every circuit on the board and everything looked good...separation of cicuits good, RCD characteristics good. There was no rhyme or reason for this constant tripping.

I told the customer about the problem and asked him to make a log of times it tripped. It was about a week later that I got a phone call that the RCD tripped again, in fact multiple times. There was no pattern to it. Sometimes nothing for a week and then half a dozen times in a day.

The solution was found by a young lady staying in guest bedroom of the top floor. The customer called me and said we've found the problem come over. We went upto the 3rd floor guest bathroom and my customer turned to the young lady and said "OK show him your trick"!!! She put her feet together jumped forward a foot and as she landed the lights tripped.

No doubt you've all guessed the problem. It was cable run in a joist notch held in place by a clout. Over the year the clout and eroded the neutral insulation so any pressure tripped the RCD. Now I must have tripped that RCD so many times, but I was more aware of my radio going off and the circuit it was plugged into rather than where I was walking or standing.

I read this forum often but I must say that senior posters must seem intimidating to some, as they often doubt peoples' abilities and are dismissive and disparaging to many. Oh but of course I forgot they have their fountains of wisdom from the day they were born, and never had mishaps or bad days along the way. If you've never had a carp day in your life where you been?

Yeah I get banter and all that....but please be aware that being to aggressive drives new posters away. I have no doubt Webster knows exactly what he is doing, and bouncing of peers is a great way to go. Sometimes we all have senior moments. To those superior condescending sparks on here..remember you were a tinhorn once...but at the same time we respect your knowledge...please feel free to share!!


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