The tories policies are working

[dingledong]

I think tourism will be stronger if they go independent

Like going to the Philippines for cheap stuff and sex

I like the sound of services for a pound

 

[Guest77]

I think tourism will be stronger if they go independent

Like going to the Philippines for cheap stuff and sex

Thats if you can get through the border, the guards may be too drunk to open the barrier lol

 

[dingledong]

But just flash a pound and you,'ll be let through
But I must admit I do like the skirl of the bagpipe

 

[Octopus]

I will bet you £1 that come post sept 18th you will be able to buy goods and services in scotland using a £1 coin ? :stooge_curly: And another £1 that sats that after the 2 year "sort out" that an Independent Scotland Will be in the EU using the Euro

I've corrected that for you. Use of the Euro is mandatory for all new EU entrants. I can't see the EU allowing any exceptions.

 

[Guest77]

Serious question Murdoch, will the Scots be allowed into the EU straight away?

 

[dingledong]

No ! ! !

 

[trev]

Thats if you can get through the border, the guards may be too drunk to find the barrier or even the border lol

Put that right for you mate

 

[telectrix]

Serious question Murdoch, will the Scots be allowed into the EU straight away?

but would the scots be stupid enough to want to join the eu, seeing how the eu is destroying this country?

 

[Guest77]

but would the scots be stupid enough to want to join the eu, seeing how the eu is destroying this country?

You getting confused Terrance, you mean seeing how the Conservative Government is destroying this country lol

 

[telectrix]

so, remind me on. who was it signed up to the human rights fiasco so his wife could charge a fortune in legal costs? ........ mmmmm was it cameron? was it hague? on no, it was phony blair, the same one that promised a eu referendum which never happened.

 

[Guest77]

so, remind me on. who was it signed up to the human rights fiasco so his wife could charge a fortune in legal costs? ........ mmmmm was it cameron? was it hague? on no, it was phony blair, the same one that promised a eu referendum which never happened.

Dear oh Dear, what a load of tosh, when your in the EU you have to play by the rules, the EU made the rules on human rights, unless we leave it we have to abide by the rules, you can blame heath for this not my mate Tony.

 

[Gavin A]

so, remind me on. who was it signed up to the human rights fiasco so his wife could charge a fortune in legal costs? ........ mmmmm was it cameron? was it hague? on no, it was phony blair, the same one that promised a eu referendum which never happened.

in what world is having our human rights legally protected, and enforceable by a court higher than any individual government a bad thing?

remember that the current legal definition of terrorist could well include pretty much anyone who dared to take any form of action with a political motivation that went beyond a basic A-B march, and we have a government and police force who think it;s perfectly acceptable to send under cover cops in to infiltrate non-violent protest organisations, including those involved in campaigns against deaths at the hands of the police, and in several cases form long term relationships with women in those groups and even in 2 cases to father kids as part of their cover.

We certainly can't rely on the UK legal system to protect us from our government and police when they overstep the mark.

 

[dingledong]

But there is human rights and people taking the peeeee

 

[Guest77]

But there is human rights and people taking the peeeee

Very True, that said I hope you never need your human rights if arrested in this country, Gavin has a good point about the way we are treated here, perhaps the human rights act isn't so laughable after all, remember the poor brazillian lad who was shot 5 times in the face for having a copy of the sun and a cheese sandwich in his ruck sack? nobody held responsible, the police get away with murder here.

 

[Gavin A]

Dear oh Dear, what a load of tosh, when your in the EU you have to play by the rules, the EU made the rules on human rights, unless we leave it we have to abide by the rules, you can blame heath for this not my mate Tony.

also, the UK was a driving force behind the European convention on human rights in the first place, and signed up to it and the European Court of Human Rights before we joined the EU, so using it as a stick to beat the EU with is nonsense.

 

[Gavin A]

But there is human rights and people taking the peeeee

by trying to avoid being sent back to countries that would torture them?

that sort of taking the peee?

 

[dingledong]

The illegal immigrant do you mean Mike ? Was the firm fined for employing him ?

 

[Guest77]

The illegal immigrant do you mean Mike ? Was the firm fined for employing him ?

He was working legitimately as an electrician in London, the police ran after him when he got on a train, he was shot at point blank range in the face 5 times, they thought he had a bomb. When they opened the rucksack he had cheese sandwiches in it, thats a true story.

 

[dingledong]

by trying to avoid being sent back to countries that would torture them?

that sort of taking the peee?

Yes the African government torturer who found out he was out of favour then come over here and said if you send me back I could be killed .how many did he torture to death he shouldn't have human rights

 

[dingledong]

He was working legitimately as an electrician in London, the police ran after him when he got on a train, he was shot at point blank range in the face 5 times, they thought he had a bomb. When they opened the rucksack he had cheese sandwiches in it, thats a true story.

He was an illegal that's why he ran

 

[Gavin A]

Yes the African government torturer who found out he was out of favour then come over here and said if you send me back I could be killed .how many did he torture to death he shouldn't have human rights

is it better that nobody get's sent back to countries who will torture them / stone them to death etc or that everyone gets sent back to be tortured and / or killed?

I prefer to be on the side of standing against people being tortured / stoned to death / hung / shot for deigning to oppose an oppressive government, or being gay or something.

Unfortunately part of the baggage of that position is that sometimes it will also protect those who are a bit less deserving of our protection, but that's a necessary side effect of protecting those who are worthy of being protected.

 

[Guest77]

He was an illegal that's why he ran

No, but even if he was, the police shouldn't have the right to get away with murder, we need to have a fair safe society where politicians, police and all persons in a position of trust/authority have to abide by rules and laws, shooting innocent people is appalling, and someone needs to be held to account.

 

[dingledong]

Yes your right Mike every one should be held to account for wrong doing

 

[dingledong]

So when is slippery lying Blair gonna stand in the dock as a war c riminal

 

[Guest77]

So when is slippery lying Blair gonna stand in the dock as a war c riminal

That can never happen because he isn't a War criminal. He was told information by our security services and took this information to parliament. There was a vote and the whole of the house with an exception of a dozen MPs backed the act of britain going to war. How could he possibly be classed as a war criminal based on this? no legit court on earth could find him guilty, However I would like to see half the Tory government in court for their part in selling off royal mail without permission from parliament, vetoing the EU without parliment discussion and the bedroom tax, which affects disabled and poor people :fuk2:

 

[dingledong]

is it better that nobody get's sent back to countries who will torture them / stone them to death etc or that everyone gets sent back to be tortured and So I commit a crime abroad and come here and claim my human rights what about the victims of my crimes ....... that don't matter

 

[dingledong]

Sneaky Tony sent people to there death flick royal mail

 

[Guest77]

Dongle I think it is time you went to bed lol, I expect your wife is telling you the same thing as your probably swaying about due to alcoholism hehe

 

[dingledong]

Doing it all for you Mike but good idea think I will goodnight

 

[Guest77]

Goodnight Gramps

 

[Gavin A]

is it better that nobody get's sent back to countries who will torture them / stone them to death etc or that everyone gets sent back to be tortured and So I commit a crime abroad and come here and claim my human rights what about the victims of my crimes ....... that don't matter

oh it matters, but not so much that people should be denied a fair trial to establish if they were actually guilty, or just being framed by a regime they were opposed to, and protected from torture or the death sentence.

You don't protect people from oppressive regimes abroad by revoking human rights here, you protect them by offering sanctuary to those who need it, and protecting the hard won gains that exist in those countries that do have respect for human rights, and where possible prosecuting those who've committed the worst abuses in the Hague.

 

[Octopus]

He was working legitimately as an electrician in London, the police ran after him when he got on a train, he was shot at point blank range in the face 5 times, they thought he had a bomb. When they opened the rucksack he had cheese sandwiches in it, thats a true story.

I remember this too. The Police are often put in a difficult position, dammed if they do and dammedif they don't.

When Charles De Menezes was shot, this was almost immediately after the London 7/7 bombing and the Police were looking for the "5th" bomber

Seven mistakes that cost De Menezes his life - Crime - UK - The Independent

 

[trev]

But there is human rights and people taking the peeeee

People are not taking the pee. The courts are enforcing a law which was passed by the government of this country to protect it's citizens against it's own excesses. The idiotic government then complain about it and spread BS stories that a court couldn't deport someone because they had a cat and the tabloid press lap it up.
Yes, some of the judgments may appear stupid but if the government doesn't like some of the provisions of a law they passed then they should amend it to suit.

 

[Diddy]

ECHR is a great thing. Something we should all be proud of. The "elite" of this country hate it as it protects US from THEM. Won't matter if you come out of the EU tomorrow if you want to trade with them (I assume we do) we will always have to abide with the ECHR.
I say shame on the elite and the media for guiding the sheep in the country to be so against something which is there to protect them. It really is a coup for them to have got ordinary people thinking this way - I liking it to convincing turkeys to vote for more Xmas's each year.

 

[Adam W]

Don't believe everything you read in the Guardian.
The people who sit behind the desks in the Jobcentre don't suddenly become caring and compassionate when Labour are in power.

 

[Guest77]

Don't believe everything you read in the Guardian.
The people who sit behind the desks in the Jobcentre don't suddenly become caring and compassionate when Labour are in power.

At last, something we both agree on, I would add all newspapers but I feel thats too much for you to believe, good post though Adam, and almost 100% correct.

 

[trev]

Don't believe everything you read in the Guardian.
The people who sit behind the desks in the Jobcentre don't suddenly become caring and compassionate when Labour are in power.

They don't, but then again they'll probably not have targets for how many people they have to sanction.

 

[Adam W]

At last, something we both agree on, I would add all newspapers but I feel thats too much for you to believe, good post though Adam, and almost 100% correct.

I would believe it. It goes right down to the level of the 'friendly' local newspaper who can make an article out of a post on facebook or twitter, a link someone has posted in a comment, or something one of their 'journalists' has seen in the street or on a night out.
Personally I read the Daily Mail, although contrary to popular belief there isn't such a thing as a 'typical Daily Mail reader' who 'laps up' journalists' opinion as the truth; as with any newspaper you have to look at the information given and make up your own mind. You only have to read the comments at the bottom of the articles to see that - they're a mixture of opinion and criticizing the standard of journalism, especially in the articles where they've just bought a load of pictures from freelance paparazzi and commented on what you can see in them.

 

[Adam W]

They don't, but then again they'll probably not have targets for how many people they have to sanction.

They don't when the tories are in power either. You can't sanction someone who hasn't done anything wrong, just to meet targets.
When things get out of hand they need reining in, which always seems to result in action being taken against soft targets, which is wrong. IMO the solution is not to let things get out of hand in the first place, but Labour seem to see it as a vote winner.

 

[trev]

There's any amount of evidence of people being sanctioned for minor infractions mate. One guy attended an Atos assessment (he'd been off sick for a while) Part way through the examination he started to have chest pains and was told by the nurse conducting it that he was having a heart attack. Nurse stopped the examination and called for an ambulance.
A couple of weeks later he gets a letter advising him that his benefit was being suspended because he failed to comply with a required examination.
DWP staff have spoken off the record to papers that they have targets to meet.

 

[Adam W]

I expect he could successfully appeal that. There is also evidence of people writing on their job search record that they don't want a job, writing a shopping list, or parking a work van outside and going in to sign on dressed in work clothes. These are the reasons a clampdown is needed, but as I said it seems to be the soft targets that get the rough end - the pee taking chavs who have no intention of working know if they cause enough of a fuss the jobcentre staff will cave in for an easy job.

 

[trev]

He did successfully appeal against it but why should he have been put through the added stress in the first place. As you say, he was an easy target.

 

[Adam W]

Obviously he shouldn't have been put through the added stress in the first place, but when spending gets out of control, action has to be taken.
It was the same with the NHS - Labour threw a load of money at it to grab headlines, but the reality was it got worse. The money wasn't spent on doctors and nurses, it was spent on IT and bureaucracy, but when the tories went to take the money back the back office bureaucrats didn't want to give up their jobs so hid behind the front line.

 

[trev]

It was the same with the NHS - Labour threw a load of money at it to grab headlines, but the reality was it got worse. The money wasn't spent on doctors and nurses, it was spent on IT and bureaucracy,

Please explain how the waiting lists went down under the last administration then.

 

[telectrix]

manipulatioin of statistics. labour were expert at that. they invented spin.

 

[Adam W]

Please explain how the waiting lists went down under the last administration then.

It's not all about waiting lists and league tables, but the things you can't easily measure. Hospital food is always a favourite - you can double the amount each meal costs but that's just wasteful if the quality doesn't 'double', if there even is a way of measuring that.
As it happens, Labour's new GP contracts made it harder to get an appointment to see a GP, which had a knock-on effect on A&E so increased waiting times there as well.
NHS 'worse value for money after investment' - politics.co.uk - Health
NHS waiting lists worse with Labour - News - The Independent
The graph that shows Labour is to blame for the pressures on A&E - Telegraph

 

[Octopus]

They don't, but then again they'll probably not have targets for how many people they have to sanction.

Hum.... who ever forms a Government next year, be it Labour, Conservative, Labour/Liberal, Conservative/Liberal, etc, etc, will have to carry on as is ....................

 

[trev]

Hum.... who ever forms a Government next year, be it Labour, Conservative, Labour/Liberal, Conservative/Liberal, etc, etc, will have to carry on as is ....................

They won't have to punish people for being poor though.

 

[Octopus]

They won't have to punish people for being poor though.

Define poor!

Nothing will change post May '15, it can't.

What the UK needs is for the EU to recover, but that isn't likely as long as the Brusselles ostriches have their collective heads in the sand.....

And if you think punative taxes are the answer, just cast your eyes across the channel to see the absolute mess France is in, as a direct result of the punative tax regime implemented by Mr Hollande.

 

[Adam W]

They won't have to punish people for being poor though.

The government aren't punishing people for being poor, but they're not rewarding them either.
The 'punishment' for being poor is, well, being poor. The measures in place in this country to act as a safety net are some of the best in the world, so good in fact they're used by some as a way of life.
This brings us back to the original issue - the benefits system is being milked by those who know how to play it while it seems to be failing those who really need it.