Being self employed and the coronavirus

[Risteard]

In case you're in any doubt as to the seriousness of the economic situation, half of the workforce in the south of Ireland are on benefits (predominantly COVID benefits). This €350/week payment will of course be reduced in early May, possibly to the standard unemployment benefit of €203/week.

(Don't get hung up on the amount being paid - cost of living is substantially higher. It is, obviously, much more generous than similar UK benefits though.)

Scale of challenge on economy, households 'very clear'

591,000 people are now receiving the Covid-19 Pandemic Unemployment Payment, with around 21,000 receiving it for the first time this week.

www.rte.ie

 

[telectrix]

@davesparks. re universal credit. bloody joke. 2nd line of the eligibility conditions:

"you’re under State Pension age (or your partner is)"

so that counts me out. like wise what used to be DLA and is npw PIPS.( I have COPD, a knackered back, and heart valve flutter).... over 65, no bloody chance.

 

[pirate]

Correct, Tel. They just want you to die! Work your backside off all your life, pay huge taxes on smokes and booze, then die before they have to pay you a pension or take care of your health problems.
My aim, to beat the system, is to live forever...
so far. so good, as the old saying goes!

 

[telectrix]

@ 73, i think my measly state pension has just about recouped all the tax i've spent on smokes and beer. another 10 years and i might just get back fuel taxes and VAT. if i live past 83, i can start on recouping income tax.

 

[buzzlightyear]

its ok for the employed peaple to get 80 percent from the government this made in China virus i bet they're laughing their heads off.
It's now P?? ING me off now being self employed either go bang and join the dole cue or wait till this blows over in a few months in which I have not got like some peaple.

 

[Baddegg]

I was speaking to a builder yesterday, self employed, no kids or mrs (living the dream!) and he just got accepted for UC with an advance lump sum of £700.....

 

[buzzlightyear]

I was speaking to a builder yesterday, self employed, no kids or mrs (living the dream!) and he just got accepted for UC with an advance lump sum of £700.....

wow, were do I sign up. the end of the day they will get that money back by hook or by crook.

 

[Baddegg]

wow, were do I sign up. the end of the day they will get that money back by hook or by crook.

Oh yeah nothing is free but it gets him out of a hole for now....i wasn’t sure to believe him but I’ve known him a while and he seemed genuinely relieved, he reckons it was simplistic, I’m fortunate that I don’t need it so couldn’t comment on the system, I’ve heard/read of it being hard work normally, but I’m glad people are actually getting help....

 

[buzzlightyear]

I’m glad people are actually getting help....

Not the self employed the forgotten army.

 

[Baddegg]

He is self employed mate and he qualified for whatever universal credit is.....and he can still claim the payment in June as well he reckons...

 

[mattg4321]

You self employed sole traders shouldn't complain too much.

I'm one of 2 directors of a ltd company. At the moment we are the only employees, although we have had more in the past. We are not eligible for the self employed scheme as we are somewhere between self employed and employed (usually depending on whether it suits the taxman or not).

We both paid around £500 less tax last year than a sole trader would have, yet we can only furlough for the PAYE portion of our income.

Would have to live on £585 each a month and if furloughed we're not allowed to work. We still have to pay van costs, scam fees, insurances etc etc out of this. It's a bit of a joke as we had months of work lined up before this. Some of it has stopped because we can't work in peoples homes in most cases and some because of lack of materials holding jobs up - plaster and plasterboard mostly it seems.

Currently working 1 week in 4 to try and keep money coming in. Bloody irritating that we are not allowed to keep working and receive help like SE can. People have an impression that dividends are a massive tax dodge and fiddle, yet you can only use the system legally as it is put in front of you. Some people suggest we should pay our wages entirely PAYE. If we did this our tax liability would be thousands more than any other type of employment a year. Dividends are taxed at 7.5% for basic rate taxpayers and that's after you've already paid 19% corporation tax on the same money.

Can imagine quite a few people will be deferring their VAT bill and folding the company later on in the year with nothing left within it. Government needs to come up with a grant for businesses without premises IMO. Otherwise furloughed employees will go down with the director/owners.

In better news we have already received the (paltry) furlough money for April from HMRC.

 

[Zerax]

Lockdown is an abject failure of policy and based on highly questionable "science". There is no doubt in my mind that these types of response will lead to more deaths than COVID-19. (There is also little evidence that they will reduce the COVID-19 deaths either.) And judging deaths with COVID-19 as deaths by COVID-19 is inherently dishonest.

You may be right... the approach taken by Sweden may be right... but the problem is that the media run the country ! And the generally left wing media have dictated that ANY deaths that are attributed to Covid-19 are the responsibility of the government for not doing something to stop it.

I notice that the BBC even ran a programme tonight to blame the government... I didn't watch the programme, I hasten to add, but why have a programme about it anyway ???

The simple fact is... that the NHS (generally, not all those nurses !), PHE and all the other associated quangos are totally unfit for purpose ! The lockdown is all about not overloading them... if we had a sensibly run health system and a sensible media... we could probably have avoided any lockdown...
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We both paid around £500 less tax last year than a sole trader would have, yet we can only furlough for the PAYE portion of our income.

I assume you take your other income as dividends which you take as owners. The furlough scheme is for employees... so it seems perfectly sensible to me that you only get furlough payments on your PAYE portion.

I'm a shareholder in some businesses but I wouldn't expect in a million years to get government money for loss of dividends !
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Government needs to come up with a grant for businesses without premises IMO.

Matt... the problem is that it is VERY VERY difficult to come up with a scheme that benefits only those that should get some benefit. And even if that was easily possible, it needs to be done in a few days !! All government functions work very very slowly... it'll take months to implement any agreed scheme.

There was a story today about how a grant scheme for Cornish businesses had given large amounts of money to second home owners... because they were running properties as FHL (furnished holiday lets) so were a legitimate business. Of course, this was not at all the intention of the scheme, but how do you remove some businesses but include others ???

 

[mattg4321]

I assume you take your other income as dividends which you take as owners. The furlough scheme is for employees... so it seems perfectly sensible to me that you only get furlough payments on your PAYE portion.

I'm a shareholder in some businesses but I wouldn't expect in a million years to get government money for loss of dividends !

In normal times no, but I wouldn't expect to get a handout like sole traders do, or my furloughed staff paid for in normal times either. The idea is we help keep these businesses going in the meantime. It seems you're suggesting dividends are a tax dodge. To put it another way, given that I am VAT registered, I generate far more tax than many sole traders, yet they are helped far more that me. In financial terms and they are also allowed to work through this period and receive help at the same time.

Matt... the problem is that it is VERY VERY difficult to come up with a scheme that benefits only those that should get some benefit. And even if that was easily possible, it needs to be done in a few days !! All government functions work very very slowly... it'll take months to implement any agreed scheme.

There was a story today about how a grant scheme for Cornish businesses had given large amounts of money to second home owners... because they were running properties as FHL (furnished holiday lets) so were a legitimate business. Of course, this was not at all the intention of the scheme, but how do you remove some businesses but include others ???

I agree, and maybe UBI would've been a better and fairer way to do things, but the government thought this way would preserve more jobs. Unless they help small business owners soon it may not.

They could've put owner/directors into the same/similar scheme as self employed. Dividends sources would have to be from their own businesses and could be proved by bank statements and being signed as true by the business accountant. Government pays out and claws back later if necessary. Just saying it's too difficult isn't good enough. It's a lame excuse.

This would also allow owner/directors to work and try to keep their company afloat whilst also receiving the help they need. The scheme could even be adjusted to slightly less than 80% annual profits to allow for the argument that owner directors pay slightly less in tax than sole traders. However as I mentioned above this isn't always totally the truth if one is VAT registered and the other not.

 

[davesparks]

wow, were do I sign up. the end of the day they will get that money back by hook or by crook.

You sign up here:

Universal Credit

Universal Credit is replacing 6 other benefits with a single monthly payment if you're out of work or on a low income - eligibility, how to prepare.

www.gov.uk

Fill in the forms and wait a few days for someone to phone you to discuss your application.

 

[andyb]

wow, were do I sign up. the end of the day they will get that money back by hook or by crook.

Don't get excited Buzz, you any advance payment you get is a loan.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Don't get excited Buzz, you any advance payment you get is a loan.

your correct there, so the end of the day you will need to pay it back the tax man don't give monie away, so when this made in China virus is over watch the taxes go up to recover all monies that was Lound.
don't forget some company's will go bang bankrupt and lay off staff and start again.
So any monies owed to wholesales they will have to whistle dicksy.

 

[davesparks]

your correct there, so the end of the day you will need to pay it back the tax man don't give monie away, so when this made in China virus is over

An advance on universal credit is paid back out of future universal credit payments yes, but you don't pay back the universal credit payments.

 

[Zerax]

so the end of the day you will need to pay it back the tax man don't give monie away

As DaveSparks says... it gets paid back out of future payments. But in the current climate, I can't see em even asking for it back, they'd probably not even bother in normal times.

The Working Tax Credits system, when it first started, was full of errors... I know two people that received cheques for several thousand pounds in error. When they queried it, they were told just to cash them as they'd never get asked to pay it back.

 

[andyb]

As DaveSparks says... it gets paid back out of future payments. But in the current climate, I can't see em even asking for it back, they'd probably not even bother in normal times.

The Working Tax Credits system, when it first started, was full of errors... I know two people that received cheques for several thousand pounds in error. When they queried it, they were told just to cash them as they'd never get asked to pay it back.

They don't ask for it back, they take it back out of future payments.

 

[davesparks]

As DaveSparks says... it gets paid back out of future payments. But in the current climate, I can't see em even asking for it back, they'd probably not even bother in normal times.

The process of paying it back is automatically set up when the advance is made, so they will take it back.