Bonding to Water - lead pipe ... tut tut

[DaveyD]

Hello you brilliant people,

Here is my problem, OSG says (if I remember), not to clamp bonding to soft metals. Customer has main water lead pipe coming in, stop cock, lead T to copper for kitchen etc , lead continues up burried in plaster to bathroom then to a small bit of copper, then plastic. Obviously want to clamp before junctions but its all lead.
Is the only way to bond after the T on the copper and then again in the copper in the bathroom?
TIA
Kind Regards, David

 

[Penance]

I think you can bond to lead but not using standard clamp as there is a chance of damaging the pipe.
I have seen braided cable swaged to lead pipes in the past, not aware of any reg against it but don't have my BRB to hand.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Bond onto the first available bit of copper if it's all solid joints..........alternatively I would not have any problem with bonding the lead on the consumers side of the stopcock despite what the OSG might say......

 

[benji]

hepworth make clamps for lead

 

[Bradzz]

Can you not bond within 600mm of the service meter? is this in lead, dont forget it say's SHOULD be? to hard pipe if that is the only part of the installation that has hard pipe then that is the location to be connected to, as the small red book says.

 

[DaveyD]

Can you not bond within 600mm of the T?

Ref my stunning drawing, I can put a lead clamp between s/cock and t

 

[SPARTYKUS]

DaveyD if it was me I'd just bond at the first bit of copper, I don't carry fancy clamps for lead. As the book says if possible within 600mm if not .... not. Just check on the lead bits after you've done the work what the reading is to sleep safe.

 

[DaveyD]

DaveyD if it was me I'd just bond at the first bit of copper, I don't carry fancy clamps for lead. As the book says if possible within 600mm if not .... not. Just check on the lead bits after you've done the work what the reading is to sleep safe.

... so after the lead T junction on the copper to the kitchen.

 

[telectrix]

old lead pipe , the metal is about1/4" thick. i see no reason not to clamp it.

 

[DaveyD]

old lead pipe , the metal is about1/4" thick. i see no reason not to clamp it.

Went to wholesaler to see what lead clamps they had - they said "neva 'eard of 'um mate"

 

[Dunc]

Bond to the copper, test the continuity to the lead parts of the installation with your water bond disconnected from the MET with a long R2 lead then list it as a departure on your certificate stating that you have tested and confirmed continuity on all other parts of the pipework. Job done.

 

[gdr7671]

No you cannot bond to lead pipes. Bond to the first piece of copper pipe even if it's more than 600mm from the stop cock. The reason for this is the clamp will work loose and damage the pipe. Then you have a bad connection; and no bond is a serious matter. Then check with a low ohm meter to check continuity of bond. If below 0.5 Ohms there is no need to bond other pipe work. Remember to check continuity and you will be fine. Regards gdr7671 MITE

 

[malcolmsanford]

No you cannot bond to lead pipes. Bond to the first piece of copper pipe even if it's more than 600mm from the stop cock. The reason for this is the clamp will work loose and damage the pipe. Then you have a bad connection; and no bond is a serious matter. Then check with a low ohm meter to check continuity of bond. If below 0.5 Ohms there is no need to bond other pipe work. Remember to check continuity and you will be fine. Regards gdr7671 MITE

Please advise where it tells us this please .........................

I would have no problem bonding to a lead water pipe as they are designed to withstand mains water pressure which can easily exceed 10bar of pressure, and as that lead will be over 50 years old, and not leaking I assume, I don't think fitting a BS 951 clamp to it is going to do it much harm . I'm not sure how thick exactly mains lead pipe is, but it's thick.

Gas is a different thing. Lead gas pipe was thinner due to the fact that gas pressure was just millibars, and so thinner pipe was used to cut costs. I would definately not be in to much of an hurry to clamp that, but thankfully lead gas pipe is less seen today.

Though it may be falling on deaf ears, I would be advising the customer that the lead really should be replaced, and be contacting the local water board about this.

 

[Penance]

No you cannot bond to lead pipes.

Reg number?

 

[telectrix]

yet again , i agree with malcolm. lead water pipe is thick and even more resistant to crushing than thin copper. what did we do when all the pipework was lead, stick a bit of copper in for a clamp?

 

[MarkieSparkie]

No you cannot bond to lead pipes. Bond to the first piece of copper pipe even if it's more than 600mm from the stop cock. The reason for this is the clamp will work loose and damage the pipe. Then you have a bad connection; and no bond is a serious matter. Then check with a low ohm meter to check continuity of bond. If below 0.5 Ohms there is no need to bond other pipe work. Remember to check continuity and you will be fine. Regards gdr7671 MITE

gdr7671 typo, should have said " If below 0.05 ohms..."

 

[gdr7671]

Thanks, you are correct. The last meeting i attended on earthing and bonding emphasized that bs951 earth clamps are unsuitable for connection to lead pipes due to there ability to loosening due to the softness of lead. They suggested flexible earth braiding tape as dno's do when earthing lead sheathed cables. Have you ever seen a cable jointer use a bs951 clamp around a lead tapped cable? Many thanks for pointing out my typo error.

 

[gdr7671]

Reg number?

Reg 544.1.2, BS 7430, Electrical Design-a good practice guide The Copper Development Association

 

[malcolmsanford]

Reg 544.1.2, BS 7430, Electrical Design-a good practice guide The Copper Development Association

544.1.2 does not mention lead pipe in anyway, are you getting mixed up with the words soft and solid

I don't have a copy of the BS 7430 with me, but as far as I can remember it also dosen't mention about bonding to lead pipes, but I may be wrong there and so can't say either way

Could you provide a link to this Copper development association and there take on the situation.

 

[gdr7671]

544.1.2 does not mention lead pipe in anyway, are you getting mixed up with the words soft and solid

I don't have a copy of the BS 7430 with me, but as far as I can remember it also dosen't mention about bonding to lead pipes, but I may be wrong there and so can't say either way

Could you provide a link to this Copper development association and there take on the situation.

The Copper development association do an excellent book called electrical design. They are based in St. Albans and can be reached on 01727 731200 Verulam Industrial Estate, 224 London Road, St Albans, Herts, AL1 1AQ. Thanks GDR