Cowboy Electricians and Installation Certificates

[J L]

My uncle had his house re-wired but received no EIC or indeed any paperwork a few years ago, I want to know the best way I can help fix the situation, the rouge sparkies left no trace of who they were so he is left with this potentially dangerous situation. I am a new qualified sparkie worked with electrics for years and now qualified to 17th edition and have full scope Stroma certification for domestic dwellings and I want to help him, so legally I can do the work but what is recommeneded way forward?, do I carry out a EICR to certify the installtion is safe?, is this the best way to generate the paperwork for this installtion to prove it is safe?

 

[Octopus]

You can't use an EICR to notify for part P.

You can use an EICR to put your uncle's mind at rest, but as you are newly qualified do you think you have enough hands on experience?

 

[Pete999]

You can't use an EICR to notify for part P.

You can use an EICR to put your uncle's mind at rest, but as you are newly qualified do you think you have enough hands on experience?

As the OP only seems to have the 17th qualification, I personally don't think he would have the required qualification and experience to conduct an EICR.

 

[Alex W]

I would agree that an EICR is a good place to start, that will flag up any remedial work that needs doing.

As others have said, if newly qualified it might be worth getting a more experienced spark in to do an EICR

 

[Octopus]

Experience is tough to come by, so doing testing on an unknown installation would be worth while if he did it for free.

Where is he based?

 

[Des 56]

My uncle had his house re-wired but received no EIC or indeed any paperwork a few years ago, I want to know the best way I can help fix the situation, the rouge sparkies left no trace of who they were so he is left with this potentially dangerous situation. I am a new qualified sparkie

do I carry out a EICR to certify the installtion is safe?, is this the best way to generate the paperwork for this installtion to prove it is safe?

You initially state its a "dangerous situation"
How did you determine it is dangerous?

You then ask how you can "prove its safe"

Other than reams of paperwork,What reason do you give for the "dangerous" statement

As post 2
It is recommended by the Iee that the person carrying out a test and inspection
"Has above average knowledge and practical experience of the type of installation to be inspected"

 

[J L]

He is based in the Rochdale area and I would be doing for free as is safty is paramont, with respect guys I have proven my competance like you have, Stroma is part-p certification I can do all work in a dwelling i.e. installation, inspection and testing in the couple of lines I have written it is wrong that I am assumed to not be competant by daring to say newly qualified sparkie, but I am not new to electrical engineering, so 35 years in, it's annoying that some sparkies assume they are know more tah other or dare I say think they are better in some way, I might be a newly qualified to sparking but have a lot of electrical engineering qualifications to my name, I would wager more than thou to the same level as the IET guys writting the big yellow book that you all have to follow, yes that is CEng and more.

 

[J L]

I said "Potentially Dangerous" as no compliance has been proven by the installers

 

[rolyberkin]

Speak to and take advice from the local council building control, your uncle will probably have to pay a regularization fee to register works with them. Are you registered with Stroma for EICR's?

 

[Des 56]

Why then did you emphasise "newly qualified"

In all due respect,related disciplines are fine for a grounding in a new skillset ( which house bashing is to you by all accounts) but it cannot replace years of post qualification experience

If I may go back to the thread question
You have probably experienced, in electrical systems throughout the land,and in many sectors the paperwork trail is a hit and miss affair

Was it ever produced in the first instance?(I would say that a large proportion of electrical systems in the UK, in many sectors,they may never had paperwork issued on completion
In the domestic sector there are occasions where it issued to the person ordering the work and gets lost in transactions or it is as you say not bothered with by the installers

If these are to be regarded as potentially dangerous then this country has one very big problem and a lot of eicrs to catch up on
The paperwork rectification may be a unnecessary( because of notification time periods) a futile excersise
A eicr will always be of merit depending on the level of competence the person carrying out the eicr has gained

 

[DPG]

it's annoying that some sparkies assume they are know more tah other or dare I say think they are better in some way, I might be a newly qualified to sparking but have a lot of electrical engineering qualifications to my name, I would wager more than thou to the same level as the IET guys writting the big yellow book that you all have to follow, yes that is CEng and more.

I would re-read this post - it comes across as a bit arrogant and superior.

 

[J L]

Ok thank's

 

[David M]

He is based in the Rochdale area and I would be doing for free as is safty is paramont, with respect guys I have proven my competance like you have, Stroma is part-p certification I can do all work in a dwelling i.e. installation, inspection and testing in the couple of lines I have written it is wrong that I am assumed to not be competant by daring to say newly qualified sparkie, but I am not new to electrical engineering, so 35 years in, it's annoying that some sparkies assume they are know more tah other or dare I say think they are better in some way, I might be a newly qualified to sparking but have a lot of electrical engineering qualifications to my name, I would wager more than thou to the same level as the IET guys writting the big yellow book that you all have to follow, yes that is CEng and more.

Nobody claims to be any better than you. They were asking if you have the necessary "experience" to conduct a suitable EICR for this type of installation. By your own admission you stated that you were newly qualified in this area. You then state that the installation could be "potentially dangerous" . Yes it could well be so, but this comes across a bit strong since no inspection and test has been carried out.
The point is the folks here are trying to help and advise you, to do that properly a little bit of back ground and information is needed.
There are many people who have higher qualifications than their jobs require, but in reality experience out ways any qualification ten fold.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

your best bet would be to contact building control for a regularisation sign off, will likely cost a couple of hundred at most, they typically get a electrician in to do a EICR and will on receipt of the report direct any issues to be put right- which in theory you could do and then certify. together with any remedial certificates and the EICR building control would issue a certificate of compliance.

 

[Pete999]

Experience is tough to come by, so doing testing on an unknown installation would be worth while if he did it for free.

Where is he based?

Sheffield I think

 

[Taylortwocities]

Are you registered with Stroma for EICR's?

I don’t know about Stroma, but many CPS require an additional qualification (2391 eg) and that you take out Professional Indemnity insurance, if you are carrying out EICRs and other test and inspection work.

 

[Spoon]

I'm a bit confused by this thread. If the OP knows how to do a EICR properly then I don't see the problem.
It does sound like some of you are saying a person who has been doing EICR's for 10 years is better than someone doing them for 8... Yes every day is a learning day but if you know how to do a job properly then how long you have been doing it doesn't always count.

 

[westward10]

I think the simple answer is yes carry out an EICR. This can be done by yourself if you feel it is within your scope of knowledge/experience or by a third party although the latter will obviously cost money.

 

[Taylortwocities]

You need to decide what the EICR is for.
As above, if it’s to check it out for your Uncle then go ahead.
If he/you wants to regularise the installation with LABC, then you need to check with them if they will accept your report, and what the cost is.

 

[The Ghost]

Why do you think the installation is dangerous?

 

[Taylortwocities]

potentially dangerous

 

[The Ghost]

He also said

rouge sparkies

I see these guys with red cheeks (face:Sigh)making off with the dough.

 

[sparksfly]

I am with westwood 10 on this ....Carry out an EICR for piece of mind at least & dont skimp on the IR testing or inspection parts. As for Part P well it needs shelving (not the wood kind !!) since its inception it was flawed. Some home owners have been advised to take out an insurance policy when selling their property if no Part P cert was available... anyway...insurance companies, don't you just love them!!. Scrap Part P, the selling of consumer units and certain electrical items in big sheds, introduce a Licence scheme....or wasn't "Electric safe" a good idea for the general public to understand ?...until politics got in the way!!....I'm off my soap box now sorry (BTW...I'm Part P approved keeping someone in employment with more tick sheets)

 

[sparksfly]

sorry I ment I agree with Westward 10....Ive had a tooth pulled today...it has affected my eyes !!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Lots of newly qualified electricians join S.A.E.P.S
(self appointed electrical police squad)

 

[Octopus]

Lots of newly qualified electricians join S.A.E.P.S
(self appointed electrical police squad)

Not sure I understand what you mean?

 

[Pete999]

Not sure I understand what you mean?

Think about it?

 

[Toneyz]

I wish we could get away from this " Part P approved/qualified line.
it should be I belong to eg Stroma C.P.Scheme etc.
I know it has been mentioned above but who employed the electricians the O.P.Uncle?.

 

[Sparkingmad]

Part P should have been the registered license scheme where whoever you sign up issues a photo ID card with expiry date as part of the scheme membership and you can only purchase certain electrical items with it. Alas the big DIY chains won the battle based on financial reasons and not public safety!
Rant over .
I would first carry out EICR and like others said go over it with a fine tooth comb. I would steer clear of signing it off for Part P if you have 3rd party certification as part of your scheme remit, unless you want to lift floor boards etc and check that they have complied fully with building regs and BS7671. Remember once you sign it off you are then guaranteeing their workmanship and assuming full responsibility for it.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Very little information has been given as to why this installation is potentially dangerous and carried out by 'rouge' cowboy electricians other than lack of paperwork. If it is that bad it is likely to be obvious to an experienced electrician with just a cursory visual check.
Seen this on here before, newly qualified, bursting with self importance, self appointed electrical police. If I've got that wrong OP lets see some evidence by way of pictures of the rogue installation.

 

[sparksburnout]

These types of post always amuse me, it's like wading around in treacle. For a start why don't you contact the council and find out if the job was ever notified? If it was then maybe the certificate has just got lost, perhaps the council could check back via the certifying body. If it never was then maybe it is dodgy, so, as it is your uncle, you could give it a coat of looking at and check it out, being as you are qualified to do so. If you are a member of Stroma then I believe you need to have a decent set of electrical quals now, so it might also be helpful to update you profile with them.

 

[Spoon]

it's like wading around in treacle

You have a strange hobby.

so it might also be helpful to update you profile with them.

I haven't added mine. See no point. Don't want to either.

The OP I think has long gone now. Shame really...
We do seem to be good at doing this though....
Maybe we need to take more happy pills and be more tolerant with some posts.

 

[sparksburnout]

You have a strange hobby.


I haven't added mine. See no point. Don't want to either.

The OP I think has long gone now. Shame really...
We do seem to be good at doing this though....
Maybe we need to take more happy pills and be more tolerant with some posts.

***k em. Sorts the men out from the -------. They always come in here, raping and pillaging, like a load of Vikings.

 

[Octopus]

Part P should have been the registered license scheme where whoever you sign up issues a photo ID card with expiry date as part of the scheme membership

Stroma insisted on issueing me with a photo ID card this year - needless to say I don't carry it.

If anybody wants to see my photo ID, they can see my driving licence

 

[lurch]

We all get asked to carry out eicrs for properties that have no certification. The history of this we know not. And we ask not. On completing said eicr we state concealed wiring is not inspected. If it passes we stick a label on it saying test again in ten years.

Yes an eicr is a good place to start.

 

[l4urence]

Really interesting reading through this entire thread. There is some good helpful advice and some unhelpful comments. The OP may well have left but he came here asking for advice, thoughts and suggestions; the whole point of this forum. It’s easy to play the experience card and put people down and belittle, perhaps that’s why people end up buying from B&Q and DIY. We can help more by educating and giving the best advice we can, credit to those that did for this thread.

 

[ipf]

Really interesting reading through this entire thread. There is some good helpful advice and some unhelpful comments. The OP may well have left but he came here asking for advice, thoughts and suggestions; the whole point of this forum. It’s easy to play the experience card and put people down and belittle, perhaps that’s why people end up buying from B&Q and DIY. We can help more by educating and giving the best advice we can, credit to those that did for this thread.

Bowlocks!....they do it because it's cheaper.

If people made it clear what their experience is, before jumping in with both feet, it might stop others presuming.....

 

[l4urence]

Bowlocks!....they do it because it's cheaper.

If people made it clear what their experience is, before jumping in with both feet, it might stop others presuming.....

You are probably right about B&Q, I stand corrected

I didn’t feel that the OP jumped in with both feet in his first post but there was a lot of presuming... maybe I’m saying it’s the presuming / assuming that’s the problem. Lesson from decades ago was never assume, it makes an --- out of U and ME. The lesson kinda stuck. In this line of work we can never assume anything. Can we!

 

[ipf]

You are probably right about B&Q, I stand corrected

I didn’t feel that the OP jumped in with both feet in his first post but there was a lot of presuming... maybe I’m saying it’s the presuming / assuming that’s the problem. Lesson from decades ago was never assume, it makes an --- out of U and ME. The lesson kinda stuck. In this line of work we can never assume anything. Can we!

Assuming on site and on a forum are entirely different.
On site, the facts are in front of you, assumptions, on some occasions, and decisions are made based upon the evidence available.

If opinions are asked, answers can only be given based on the evidence given. The assumptions will occur as a result,
inexperience included.