EV motorcycle guy

[Alexander]

Simply a motorbike guy who's totally itching to do a cost affective EV conversion on motorcycles,, ahead of the trend...

EV motorcycles do exist but ar few and expensive.

If more people take the challenge and do EV conversions product usage should become noticeable and perhaps will drive packages that are more easily sourced and become common knowledge amoungst the public

So EV conversion But with a twist,,

Hybrid, using the existing petrol engine to supply power directly to a Electric motor Wheel Hub

Alowing normal usage and range...

 

[DPG]

Simply a motorbike guy who's totally itching to do a cost affective EV conversion on motorcycles,, ahead of the trend...

EV motorcycles do exist but ar few and expensive.

If more people take the challenge and do EV conversions product usage should become noticeable and perhaps will drive packages that are more easily sourced and become common knowledge amoungst the public

So EV conversion But with a twist,,

Hybrid, using the existing petrol engine to supply power directly to a Electric motor Wheel Hub

Alowing normal usage and range...

Personally on a bike I would just go full electric. Saves over complication, weight and servicing costs.

 

[Alexander]

Personally on a bike I would just go full electric. Saves over complication, weight and servicing costs.

That's a fair point regarding the cost of servicing ()

I don't know the figures but i would argue the weight of the engine would be similar to that of the batteries (?), I feel the success for this project is the limitless range... Using petrol stations naturally.

Thanks for commenting.

Any thoughts about the eclrical output side of the engine? Is it possible?

 

[Edtwozeronine]

That's a fair point regarding the cost of servicing ()

I don't know the figures but i would argue the weight of the engine would be similar to that of the batteries (?), I feel the success for this project is the limitless range... Using petrol stations naturally.

Thanks for commenting.

Any thoughts about the electrical output side of the engine? Is it possible?

I watch a YouTuber called Louis Rossmann who uses a Bfang electric motor to power his mountain bike around New York City. A Bfang motor on some sort of peddle bike would be a good place to start as the frame would be lighter than that of a motorbike. It would probably be more cost effective (and perhaps easier) to knock out and sell bespoke powered bicycles than motorbikes.

Where all electric vehicles fall down is if they're driven in hilly areas as there's no way around the rise in power use to overcome gravity. I don't think it's worth perusing the hybrid route as the whole point of everything going electric is to avoid fossil fuel use in general to cut down air pollution. The best way to use fossil fuels is directly in a combustion engine, as it has so much going for it! It's extremely energy dense for it's size and weight and as you drive and fuel is burned, your vehicle becomes lighter! Add to that we have a supply chain for the stuff just about everywhere and it's simple to fill up with more, anything else is going to be a faff.

The most fun thing I've seen is compressed air powered vehicles but they'll be extremely niche and you'll end up with the range anxiety problem that electric vehicles currently suffer from; unless we had a system like petrol forcourts set up to supply compressed air and then comes the problem of electricity needing to be generated to make compressors compress the air in the first place, would it be a mix of renewables and nuclear power supplying the compressors? So many things to ponder eh?

 

[suffolkspark]

Once had an electric moped with paddles on but looked like a ped, did about 20mph and 100 miles on a charge, was pretty fun, and cheap second hand

Ps @Edtwozeronine beanus ?

 

[Alexander]

I watch a YouTuber called Louis Rossmann who uses a Bfang electric motor to power his mountain bike around New York City. A Bfang motor on some sort of peddle bike would be a good place to start as the frame would be lighter than that of a motorbike. It would probably be more cost effective (and perhaps easier) to knock out and sell bespoke powered bicycles than motorbikes.

Where all electric vehicles fall down is if they're driven in hilly areas as there's no way around the rise in power use to overcome gravity. I don't think it's worth perusing the hybrid route as the whole point of everything going electric is to avoid fossil fuel use in general to cut down air pollution. The best way to use fossil fuels is directly in a combustion engine, as it has so much going for it! It's extremely energy dense for it's size and weight and as you drive and fuel is burned, your vehicle becomes lighter! Add to that we have a supply chain for the stuff just about everywhere and it's simple to fill up with more, anything else is going to be a faff.

The most fun thing I've seen is compressed air powered vehicles but they'll be extremely niche and you'll end up with the range anxiety problem that electric vehicles currently suffer from; unless we had a system like petrol forcourts set up to supply compressed air and then comes the problem of electricity needing to be generated to make compressors compress the air in the first place, would it be a mix of renewables and nuclear power supplying the compressors? So many things to ponder eh?

Yes, isn't compressed air available at all petrol stations?

Pedal bikes are not in the breif, nor is production

I'm in the forum to ask advice on electrical output of combustion engines and hoping to confirm a similarity to battery discharge /supply.

So two goals,

Can it be done, mating the two forms together using the existing stock of EV componants.

And to narrow down the required EV components from the miriad listed on AliExpress so that others could follow.

Two plusses for this is the goal to use Less petrol and at the same time improve power to road

If a 125cc engine can produce enough power equivilant to a 600-1000cc bike at a fraction of petrol usage its a winner in my book.

* the question if got : can the stator output of an engine directly replace a Lithium battery for power supply to a EV unit as shown in my posts images *

-would it need some kind of converter? Perhaps

- could the EV unit tolerate a low voltage and increasing voltage,,, in comparison to the stable battery

Thanks for you interest
[automerge]1587280200[/automerge]

Once had an electric moped with paddles on but looked like a ped, did about 20mph and 100 miles on a charge, was pretty fun, and cheap second hand

Ps @Edtwozeronine beanus ?

Thanks

Any chance you have a strong knowledge of motorcycle stators or stators in general theory?

 

[DPG]

Your question seems to be about replacing the batteries. Do you mean not using batteries at all? The bike stator output is only suitable for charging the battery etc. Its not going to power an electric motor big enough to drive the bike.

If you aren't using batteries then all you are doing is adding an energy conversion stage, ie. Petrol engine to electric motor. Which will involve losses.

 

[Edtwozeronine]

Looks like the big manufacturers are already doing it. <-click link

 

[Strima]

Fuel consumption versus power output would be massively different and not cost effective. It would be easier and cheaper to just go full electric with batteries.

 

[Alexander]

Your question seems to be about replacing the batteries. Do you mean not using batteries at all? The bike stator output is only suitable for charging the battery etc. Its not going to power an electric motor big enough to drive the bike.

If you aren't using batteries then all you are doing is adding an energy conversion stage, ie. Petrol engine to electric motor. Which will involve losses.

Yes, you've understood that right

My bike limits its power to the battery to 14.5v

But what actually comes out of the stator is said to be 70-80v which is just enough to power a pretty pwerfull electric motor

See the photos that I put with the original post plz

If the numbers do fit, I'm hoping it's a simple case of wiring the engine in as if it were a battery, rev the engine to the required output then off it goes

 

[DPG]

Yes, you've understood that right

My bike limits its power to the battery to 14.5v

But what actually comes out of the stator is said to be 70-80v which is just enough to power a pretty pwerfull electric motor

See the photos that I put with the original post plz

If the numbers do fit, I'm hoping it's a simple case of wiring the engine in as if it were a battery, rev the engine to the required output then off it goes

Question for you: what is the maximum output current available from the stator? 2nd question: is it sufficient to power the motor?

Don't worry too much about the voltage.

 

[Alexander]

Question for you: what is the maximum output current available from the stator? 2nd question: is it sufficient to power the motor?

Don't worry too much about the voltage.

I'm not sure, I have emailed the bike brand to find out, my multimeter died so I can't measure it

I hope as much as 80ah

 

[DPG]

I'm not sure, I have emailed the bike brand to find out, my multimeter died so I can't measure it

I hope as much as 80ah

80Ah or 80 Amps max?

 

[Alexander]

Uhm

80Ah or 80 Amps max?

, I'm not sure, which is gooder??

The battery advice from the electric motor seller was for a 72v 80ah battery

 

[DPG]

Uhm

, I'm not sure, which is gooder??

The battery advice from the electric motor seller was for a 72v 80ah battery

Have a search on the web for what charging current is typically available from a motorcycle charging system. You don't need to know the exact figure, just a rough idea. Then see if this will be capable of driving your motor.

I suspect it won't.

 

[Alexander]

Have a search on the web for what charging current is typically available from a motorcycle charging system. You don't need to know the exact figure, just a rough idea. Then see if this will be capable of driving your motor.

I suspect it won't.

OK, that's the first reponce I've had about is,

I can't imaging why not though

May I ask, are you a competent engine know it all?

 

[DPG]

OK, that's the first reponce I've had about is,

I can't imaging why not though

May I ask, are you a competent engine know it all?

I a certainly don't know it all. I know you need to find the details I mentioned though.

And I'm a biker.

 

[Alexander]

I a certainly don't know it all. I know you need to find the details I mentioned though.

And I'm a biker.

Yeah but,, I was doing that anyway,

 

[DPG]

Yeah but,, I was doing that anyway,

Let us know when you have had a Google search and got an idea of the output current.

 

[Alexander]

Let us know when you have had a Google search and got an idea of the output current.

I will I will,, I said I've emailed the manufactorer for the official specs, but it has been a Sunday here in the UK, and well...

 

[DPG]

I will I will,, I said I've emailed the manufactorer for the official specs, but it has been a Sunday here in the UK, and well...

The point I'm trying to make is that you don't need the exact data from the manufacturer of one charging system, you need an idea of the typical output from a motorcycle charging system. This way you can see if it is anywhere near the current you need.

This will save you waiting for a manufacturer to reply, which may take longer than normal with things as they are.

Also,do some research into the difference between Amps and Amp Hours. This will help you understand figures that you are seeing.

 

[Alexander]

The point I'm trying to make is that you don't need the exact data from the manufacturer of one charging system, you need an idea of the typical output from a motorcycle charging system. This way you can see if it is anywhere near the current you need.

This will save you waiting for a manufacturer to reply, which may take longer than normal with things as they are.

Also,do some research into the difference between Amps and Amp Hours. This will help you understand figures that you are seeing.

Ah OK yeah,

As for the difference between Amps and Amp hours,,, ANYONE CARE TO ENLIGHTEN ME PLZ TIA
[automerge]1587372712[/automerge]

Ah OK yeah,

As for the difference between Amps and Amp hours,,, ANYONE CARE TO ENLIGHTEN ME PLZ TIA

Ok so I'm not having much luck with actual specs from engines, probably using the rwrong search term

But this guy says this :
[automerge]1587372982[/automerge]

Ah OK yeah,

As for the difference between Amps and Amp hours,,, ANYONE CARE TO ENLIGHTEN ME PLZ TIA
[automerge]1587372712[/automerge]

Ok so I'm not having much luck with actual specs from engines, probably using the rwrong search term

But this guy says this :

So he's saying he has 400v... Which is followed up by some other guy calculating that it's at 28A

For my (theoretical) motor it is a 72v motor

As a electric mathematic dunce... Can I then say

(400v ÷ 72v) X 28a ///// 5.55 x 28 = 155. 55

Or is that just nonsense?
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[automerge]1587373274[/automerge]

[automerge]1587373388[/automerge]
In the measurement of electricity, amps are a unit of electrical current; amp-hours are units of current storage capacity. ... An Amp-Hour is a more abstract idea, multiplying an amount of current by a period of time: one AH is defined as an amp of current flowing for one hour.

Sciencing - https://sciencing.com › relationship-...
What Is the Relationship Between Amps & AH? - Sciencing
[automerge]1587373465[/automerge]
In the measurement of electricity, amps are a unit of electrical current; amp-hours are units of current storage capacity. ... An Amp-Hour is a more abstract idea, multiplying an amount of current by a period of time: one AH is defined as an amp of current flowing for one hour.

Sciencing - https://sciencing.com › relationship-...
What Is the Relationship Between Amps & AH? - Sciencing

 

[Alexander]

Please would someone knowledgeable tell me if it can be done and why not and what would be needed to make it work

Just tell me ?

 

[DPG]

Please would someone knowledgeable tell me if it can be done and why not and what would be needed to make it work

Just tell me ?

I can't say whether that calculation is nonsense or not, since I don't know what it is trying to calculate or what the units are.

But, your motor takes 130 Amps in normal running. Do you expect to be able to take that amount of current directly from the motorcycle charging system? I am pretty confident the answer is no.

The screenshot which mentions alternator output is presumably referring to a car's alternator? And even this is showing a maximum output of around 30A.

 

[Alexander]

I can't say whether that calculation is nonsense or not, since I don't know what it is trying to calculate or what the units are.

But, your motor takes 130 Amps in normal running. Do you expect to be able to take that amount of current directly from the motorcycle charging system? I am pretty confident the answer is no.

The screenshot which mentions alternator output is presumably referring to a car's alternator? And even this is showing a maximum output of around 30A.

I found this guy (short video)

View: https://youtu.be/JqE-Qw0PfF0


I'm not thinking about the bikes charging system, I would side load a 12v regulator to charge the battery and power the lights

 

[DPG]

I found this guy (short video)

View: https://youtu.be/JqE-Qw0PfF0


I'm not thinking about the bikes charging system, I would side load a 12v regulator to charge the battery and power the lights

Haven't watched the video yet. I don't understand your point about side loading a regulator. Where is the power for the motor coming from?

 

[Zerax]

I really don't want to get involved with this thread... but just so that I understand what you're trying to do... am I correct in thinking that:

Whereas a 'normal' motorcycle will use a petrol engine to create rotational motion, which is then transferred, via a chain, to a wheel to produce linear drive along a road...

You want to use the petrol engine to produce electricity that will be used to power an electric motor that's attached to the wheel ???

And that you believe, without doing any calculations, or even knowing the difference between an Amp and an Amp Hour, that this 'upgrade' will give some benefit, such as more efficiency, drivability, 'green-ness' etc ???

 

[Alexander]

Haven't watched the video yet. I don't understand your point about side loading a regulator. Where is the power for the motor coming from?

The spark is taken off the stator, it does this at the stator and has a separate connection for the cdi/coil/spark

Side load,,, so normally the stator is connected to a regulator for 14.5v

I need this to charge the bikes 12v battery and lights

But I'm guessing I can run two regulators, a 12v and a 72v in parallel

 

[DPG]

The spark is taken off the stator, it does this at the stator and has a separate connection for the cdi/coil/spark

Side load,,, so normally the stator is connected to a regulator for 14.5v

I need this to charge the bikes 12v battery and lights

But I'm guessing I can run two regulators, a 12v and a 72v in parallel

I'll ask again. Are you wanting to power thr electric motor from the output of the bike's charging system? And do you expect it to provide 130 Amps?

 

[Alexander]

Sorry,

I'll ask again. Are you wanting to power thr electric motor from the output of the bike's charging system? And do you expect it to provide 130 Amps?

Sorry,

Yes... And no

Because of the battery advised I was thinking along the lines of 80.... A... AH (?)
[automerge]1587404237[/automerge]

Sorry,


Sorry,

Yes... And no

Because of the battery advised I was thinking along the lines of 80.... A... AH (?)

My main limiting factor is the 10kw motor,

11kw being the legal limit for the A1 class of motorcycle ( 125cc/learner legal/L plates)

 

[DPG]

Your main limiting factor is the current available from the bike electrical system I would say.

 

[Alexander]

Your main limiting factor is the current available from the bike electrical system I would say.

Ok, quick Google tells me

Current = voltage ÷ resistance

So what, just having 72v plugged in ( using a 72v regulator between the engine stator and the EV control unit isn't enough (?)

These Amps then, I can have 72v but not enough Amps?

Both are crucial but not striktly* link in provision (?)

 

[DPG]

Ok, quick Google tells me

Current = voltage ÷ resistance

So what, just having 72v plugged in ( using a 72v regulator between the engine stator and the EV control unit isn't enough (?)

These Amps then, I can have 72v but not enough Amps?

Both are crucial but not striktly* link in provision (?)

I think you are beginning to see the problem.

 

[Alexander]

I think you are beginning to see the problem.

Well, I'm seeing it being said to me

You're suggesting maybe that the Amps will be too low

.... How does one calculate Amps? Or better yet how do I increase the Amps

Would more coils in the stator generate what I want

Normal coil has 3 maybe 6 ccoils I forget off the top of my head but I know I can upgrade the stator with more coils, I fact replace

 

[DPG]

Well, I'm seeing it being said to me

You're suggesting maybe that the Amps will be too low

.... How does one calculate Amps?

You can't really calculate the output. Have you done any research on the typical output current of a motorbike charging system?

 

[telectrix]

think this project will be like the bike..... a non starter.

 

[Alexander]

You can't really calculate the output. Have you done any research on the typical output current of a motorbike charging system?

All I've managed to find regarding it was that video, and still waiting for the respnce of the bike manufactorer (of my bike)

I hope to get what I need from them

Originally I hoped someone would say : nah that's engine in place of engine onto EV controller) not possible because...

But I guess, like I've been hoping it's possible as long as the circumstances are right

So if I had the right voltage but not enough Amps, what would it do for the electric motor?

 

[DPG]

All I've managed to find regarding it was that video, and still waiting for the respnce of the bike manufactorer (of my bike)

I hope to get what I need from them

Originally I hoped someone would say : nah that's engine in place of engine onto EV controller) not possible because...

But I guess, like I've been hoping it's possible as long as the circumstances are right

So if I had the right voltage but not enough Amps, what would it do for the electric motor?

Your solution is: batteries. This how the motorcycle and car industry do it now with their hybrid vehicles. Engine/batteries/motor.

 

[Alexander]

Being the bright spark I've stolen this off Google or someone
[automerge]1587414018[/automerge]

Being the bright spark I've stolen this off Google or someone

I can estimate 70v, and what...? Ohms because of... The thickness of the wires, condition and structure

 

[DPG]

Being the bright spark I've stolen this off Google or someone
[automerge]1587414018[/automerge]

I can estimate 70v, and what...? Ohms because of... The thickness of the wires, condition and structure

That's Ohms Law. It will not help you get more current out of a charging system.

Right, here's something to try. Flatten your motorcycle battery (not fully though or you will damage it). Now, connect it to your bike and use a suitable meter (possibly clamp type) to check the charge current flowing into the battery.

Report back with your findings.

 

[Alexander]

That's Ohms Law. It will not help you get more current out of a charging system.

Right, here's something to try. Flatten your motorcycle battery (not fully though or you will damage it). Now, connect it to your bike and use a suitable meter (possibly clamp type) to check the charge current flowing into the battery.

Report back with your findings.

Nope_

Because I took it out so I could fit a barrety,(big). here's what I know, pterol+ bump start can start a bike this size

And 12v battery that when fitted in place only has a 12.5 reading after 1 hour

It fluctuates after its been on charge

When it is it reads a good 14.5 v when I am riding, and 12.7.55

Its fine
[automerge]1587415129[/automerge]

Nope_

Because I took it out so I could fit a barrety,(big). here's what I know, pterol+ bump start can start a bike this size

And 12v battery that when fitted in place only has a 12.5 reading after 1 hour

It fluctuates after its been on charge

When it is it reads a good 14.5 v when I am riding, and 12.7.55

Its fine

Wait what, flatten it before reading the charge voltage?
[automerge]1587415209[/automerge]

Nope_

Because I took it out so I could fit a barrety,(big). here's what I know, pterol+ bump start can start a bike this size

And 12v battery that when fitted in place only has a 12.5 reading after 1 hour

It fluctuates after its been on charge

When it is it reads a good 14.5 v when I am riding, and 12.7.55

Its fine
[automerge]1587415129[/automerge]

Wait what, flatten it before reading the charge voltage?

It's current measuring the Amps, on a standard battery test,, having two sets of numbers, the Amps and.....

Ok thanks that would tell me the next step would be...

 

[DPG]

Nope_

Because I took it out so I could fit a barrety,(big). here's what I know, pterol+ bump start can start a bike this size

And 12v battery that when fitted in place only has a 12.5 reading after 1 hour

It fluctuates after its been on charge

When it is it reads a good 14.5 v when I am riding, and 12.7.55

Its fine
[automerge]1587415129[/automerge]

Wait what, flatten it before reading the charge voltage?

None of that makes any sense or is any help.

 

[Alexander]

None of that makes any sense or is any help.

Yeah, so, I spent 5£ on a little digital dual _ display meter for the bikeb? only last season

 

[DPG]

You obviously don't want any help, so I'm out.

 

[Alexander]

Staying on topic, this is a discussion about using a petrol motor to power an eelrlecctric motor. I'm sorry but covid19 has meant I've been busy,