How to authenticate if an electrical installation certificate is genuine

[OldManJohn]

Hi
Im after some advice on protocol and where I stand regarding a single signature electrical installation certificate.

I wont bore you with a long winded story of events, but basically we had some renovation work on the downstairs of our house carried out by a local builder who was recommended to us. The job basically involved virtually re-wiring the majority of the downstairs to our property including a new fuse box.
The work was carried out by two guys who worked with the builder who we assumed were fully qualified.
We had numerous issues with certain lights and switches along the way, plus other plumbing issues and totally lost all confidence in them the further the job went. We had numerous issues with damage to doors and flooring etc etc. One of the problems we had was neither of the two guys who carried out the electrical work wanted to put their name to any sign off electrical certification thus basically high lighting to us that they were not fully qualified as electricians.
On the final day of the work being completed the main builder told us that he would have to send off for the certificate and that it could take up to three weeks to come through to us?
Alarm bells were ringing now, a. why wouldnt neither of the guys sign it off?
b. who has been and checked all the wiring etc as they hadnt told us of anyone else coming to do this, and I was around for a lot of the time as I work shift hours?
c. Should any type of certificate take this long to come through and what type should it be and what do they look like?
d. We emailed the builder 2 nights ago asking about the outstanding certificate which is now 8 WEEKS since he finished the rest of the job and nothing has turned up (a final payment is still outstanding but he has not even asked for this?)
e. Tonight I have an envelope discretely put through my letterbox without the courtesy to knock with 4 sheets of A4 paper in all filled in by someone we dont know has been here, an incorrect date to it when the supposed sign off was carried out, I was here then and it was not on that day!? The certificate was printed then filled in throughout looking quite legitimate and with the chaps registration number on it. But why does it all of a sudden arrive once Id contacted him about it 8 weeks after the job finished??

Could someone tell me what the protocol is and how I can check if this is legitimate because I know no one has been here to check the wiring.
I've also read online that no third partys not involved in the work from the outset can 'sign off' electrical work to this degree.

Any advice much appreciated
Thanks John

 

[R G]

Did anybody do any testing , and whats on the certificate , is there any scheme onit ie Niceic , Napit , Elecsa or what ,
Does anything on these A4 papers relate to the work carried out , If poss post a copy over ...

 

[OldManJohn]

Hi
I never saw anyone do any type of testing nor was I told that any had been carried out.
There is no indication of any scheme at all. They are filled in relating to the work carried out. I have a pdf of the 4 pages, can I email them privately to you?
Thanks
John

 

[R G]

send them over via private message on the menu

 

[OldManJohn]

I think I need to make a few more posts before it lets me upload pictures etc, 6 I think.
How then can I attach the pdfs?

 

[OldManJohn]

Is there any way of checking his registration number?

- - - Updated - - -

We dont recognise the name either.

 

[OldManJohn]

Still attempting to upload - sorry, just going to post a couple more times in case this then allows me to attach files.

 

[OldManJohn]

Surely this is illegal to issue this type of certificate without the inspection being carried out?

 

[R G]

If there is no mention of a scheme or who they are registered with , then they are not approved to carry out domestic work . Go back to your'e builder and tell him your'e going to local authority building control, with the certs ..

 

[Richard Burns]

There is a website The Competent Person Register that lists all companies who a registered to work in many fields, including electrical installation, search for the company name on this register and if they are there then you have some reassurance.

The forms can be in many different formats however they should be based on model forms in the wiring regulations, you can get copies of these from the IET as a pdf download look on the right hand side half way down at model forms choose the top one. The form you should have received initially is an "Electrical Installation Certificate"
once the work is notified or approved by Building Control you should receive a building regulations compliance or completion certificate.

 

[Octopus]

I'm guessing you've paid his bill so he's got no reason to help you or come back.

Sorry.

 

[OldManJohn]

The only link to anything in the certificate title is 'BS 7671:2008 - single signature'
Its definetely been printed out from a home printer and all filled in but there are no stamps, logos, icons referring to any electrical association of any type its all just in black on A4 paper.
I will contact him and tell him about the local authority building control.
We had lost all confidence in him long before this problem anyway and do not trust this is all legitimate.

 

[OldManJohn]

No we haven't paid his final bill this is why its been so strange that he hasnt contacted us about the outstanding certificates for 8 weeks until I contacted him about them two days ago. There were a few other issues too that he didnt accept responsibility for this is why we are thinking he almost knew he may not get paid and it wouldnt be worth all the hassle to try and get a final payment.

 

[Richard Burns]

The company name should be filled out in, I think, the section after the signatures on the first page.

I am sorry to say that this does not seem like it has been done in accordance with the law.

 

[markc123]

Sack the private messaging of the certs, put them on this forum so we can all have a good nosey

 

[OldManJohn]

For the level of work they carried out Im now assuming Building Control should have been involved?

 

[OldManJohn]

He's just written his name then underneath the builders name who hes carried out the inspection for then underneath that his signature. Theres no name of any company.

- - - Updated - - -

I cant seem to upload the pdfs, any ideas?

 

[Des 56]

This should allay your anxiety



Q
Who is responsible for making sure any work complies with Part P

Ans
You are. By law, all home owners and landlords must be able to prove that all electrical wiring meets Part P, or they will be committing a criminal offence.

Local authorities can make homeowners or landlords remove or alter any work that doesn’t comply with the Building Regulations.




Read this

England and Wales : Electrical Safety Council

 

[Richard Burns]

For the level of work they carried out Im now assuming Building Control should have been involved?

A rewire with change of consumer unit requires building control notification. If the person doing the work is a member of a self certification scheme, that you can check on the competent person register, then he can self certify the work and building control are only receiving paperwork.

If he is not a member of a scheme then Building control should be inspecting and testing as the work goes along, although if the workers are qualified building control may accept their qualifications and paperwork.

He's just written his name then underneath the builders name who hes carried out the inspection for then underneath that his signature. Theres no name of any company.

- - - Updated - - -

I cant seem to upload the pdfs, any ideas?

On the single signature form from BS7671 the electrician who signs it is certifying that the work has been designed, installed, inspected and tested by the signatory, it is not signed for anybody it is signed by somebody.
You could check if the builder is on the competent persons register or search for the electricians name but I am not confident you will find them.

You may need 15 posts before you can upload, not sure.

 

[OldManJohn]

There is a website The Competent Person Register that lists all companies who a registered to work in many fields, including electrical installation, search for the company name on this register and if they are there then you have some reassurance.

The forms can be in many different formats however they should be based on model forms in the wiring regulations, you can get copies of these from the IET as a pdf download look on the right hand side half way down at model forms choose the top one. The form you should have received initially is an "Electrical Installation Certificate"
once the work is notified or approved by Building Control you should receive a building regulations compliance or completion certificate.

Yes ive looked at the pdf model forms here and it is very similar. This is all we have had (4 pages) nothing from Building Control obviously as they were not informed.

What would you do now, apart from telling the builder I am going to Building Control, and where do I stand in regards to not paying him the final payment due to all of this?