Issue with supply from downstairs flat

[garethmf]

Good evening all,

So been to an upstairs flat today I East ham, the entire road is terraced 2 storey building which look like a row of terraced house but are in fact all flats one down and one up. The owner downstairs allowed me in to look a couple of weeks ago and there are two fuses one for upstairs and one down, he won't allow anything to be touched on the fuses at all which ok isn't ideal but can understand. However the upstairs flat should also pick up its earth from downstairs but it isn't connected - the tails to upstairs run through a conduit and the upstairs has an earth point on the conduit but there is nothing downstairs. When I went today to correct that and also fit a new isolator switch upstairs the owner downstairs is refusing any access down stairs to connect an earth unless it is done by the DNO which they won't do. I was just wondering what rights the owner upstairs has to get his earth connected. Ive never worked on anything like this with someone refusing to allow access etc.

 

[mainline]

Good evening all,

So been to an upstairs flat today I East ham, the entire road is terraced 2 storey building which look like a row of terraced house but are in fact all flats one down and one up. The owner downstairs allowed me in to look a couple of weeks ago and there are two fuses one for upstairs and one down, he won't allow anything to be touched on the fuses at all which ok isn't ideal but can understand. However the upstairs flat should also pick up its earth from downstairs but it isn't connected - the tails to upstairs run through a conduit and the upstairs has an earth point on the conduit but there is nothing downstairs. When I went today to correct that and also fit a new isolator switch upstairs the owner downstairs is refusing any access down stairs to connect an earth unless it is done by the DNO which they won't do. I was just wondering what rights the owner upstairs has to get his earth connected. Ive never worked on anything like this with someone refusing to allow access etc.

Is there any earthing being brought to the upstairs flat via copper pipes etc ?

Have you done any measurements, ZS etc earthing system ?

 

[westward10]

Are both meters downstairs.

 

[timhoward]

Do you know anything about the legal ownership of the flats?
Finding out on what basis they both occupy the premises is probably the next step
e.g. are both parties tenants (or own the flats leasehold), or is the downstairs occupant the freeholder and leases the upstairs flat?

 

[garethmf]

Thanks for the replies. The upstairs flat is owned but not sure if leasehold or free hold. The upstairs flat.meter is upstairs which is what has brought about me.going as the meter is a pre payment one and is no longer taking payments but is also not running out of credit! Meter company won't change it due to no possibility of asbestos in fuse upstairs but as this isn't the main fuse - that is downstairs DNO is saying it's nothing to do with them.
There is by the looks of it bonding coming up but only 4mm cables and can't confirm where they go. I've.done pfc -130a, zs is 1.85ohms.

 

[timhoward]

If it turns out to be leasehold it would be worth a glance at the lease to see if the electricity supply is mentioned. It may be that whoever is receiving ground-rent has an obligation to provide an electricity supply.
If it's freehold sometimes there were covenants to cover things like this when the properties were initially divided but they can also only apply to the original parties and are not taken over when the deeds change hands. So anything if possible.

I've had one a bit like this once, stalemate for many weeks, it finished off with the upstairs freeholder applying directly to the DNO for their own supply, at which point they obtained entry downstairs and created a looped supply from downstairs (which I don't think would happen these days)

I've.done pfc -130a, zs is 1.85ohms.

So there aren't any fortuitous circumstances providing an unofficial equivalent earth path but it could be worse.
As this may not be quick to resolve, what is the RCD situation?

 

[garethmf]

I will ask if lease hold or free hold and see if anything is in the deeds. The whole road is the same buildings with 2 front doors so assume they were all built like this originally.
Fortunately the cu is RCD protected so good on that front. Not sure why the guy downstairs is refusing to be honest as it makes no difference to him at all and I would have only needed to be there for a few minutes for the earthing.
I agree I think this could take quite some time to sort out.

 

[Rockingit]

Begs the question…. Who installed the prepayment meter originally? Because surely that meter fitter failed in due diligence to check there was a satisfactory earth. In which building is the cut-out?

I’d have thought that the entire block will be leasehold due to the common roof in which case there will certainly be easements in place for scenarios such as this although I agree it could take weeks and have legal costs involved - so much simpler for the two owners to talk!!

Alternatively, is there a route available to take a cable externally from above and just TT it?

 

[garethmf]

Begs the question…. Who installed the prepayment meter originally? Because surely that meter fitter failed in due diligence to check there was a satisfactory earth. In which building is the cut-out?

I’d have thought that the entire block will be leasehold due to the common roof in which case there will certainly be easements in place for scenarios such as this although I agree it could take weeks and have legal costs involved - so much simpler for the two owners to talk!!

Alternatively, is there a route available to take a cable externally from above and just TT it?

I did look at TT the supply, it is possible but not going to be easy as not sure where the gas and water pipework is underground.

 

[Rockingit]

Just re-read the OP and see the cut-out is downstairs. It’s therefore not up to the owner of downstairs to decree what does/not happen with it as it doesn’t belong to them!!