Lifting glued T&G chipboard

[Donkeybrains]

The prctice these days is to D4 glue 22mm T&G chipboard together and to the joists. Then follow with nails or screws. Has anyone tried lifting these boards afterwards?

How do you do it without ripping the joists?

Thanks in advance.

 

[telectrix]

might be an easier option to cut the ceillng below. less repair costs.

 

[Donkeybrains]

might be an easier option to cut the ceillng below. less repair costs.

Thats an awful option. 15mm plasterboard with 100mm Rock wool above. Then getting a plasterer in to fix. The T&G manufacturers recommend the glueing too. Great until you need to do something.

Im building a house and about to lay the first floor T&G. The D4 glue is strong as hell. Ive done floating floor on the ground floor and the stuff supports a gym with us dead lifting damn near 200Kg. No squeaks in the 9 months use so far. Sitting on 150mm rigid foam.

 

[telectrix]

so, go back to proper floorboards , TG real wood. nails/screws. sod the weetabix sheets,

 

[UNG]

The prctice these days is to D4 glue 22mm T&G chipboard together and to the joists. Then follow with nails or screws. Has anyone tried lifting these boards afterwards?

How do you do it without ripping the joists?

Thanks in advance.

Been using this sytem for 30+ years, cuts a 250mm hole which I find plenty big enough to get tools in to drill joists and fish cables and speedfit pipe

 

[OnlQQker]

I do this...

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Same as @OnlQQker . You have to cut a separate hole between each pair of joists, if you try to cut a strip across the joists it will break when you pull it up.

Sometimes you find it has been glued only, no screws/nails, so the location of the joists is a mystery. Go downstairs, find the joists in the ceiling with a magnet, and measure them off the external wall. Transfer the measurements upstairs to find the joists.

 

[littlespark]

I’ve used the drill kits with the plastic laid in plugs before.
About 8 plugs in one house across two bedrooms.
They just lie in loose on a rebated edge. Not fixed… so luckily most of the holes ended up inside a built in wardrobe, or under furniture… not getting walked on.

 

[UNG]

I do this...

I've always found that is not the best solution unless you batten all the edges after a year or two the chipboard distorts and leaves a slightly sunk patch in the floor

 

[UNG]

I’ve used the drill kits with the plastic laid in plugs before.
About 8 plugs in one house across two bedrooms.
They just lie in loose on a rebated edge. Not fixed… so luckily most of the holes ended up inside a built in wardrobe, or under furniture… not getting walked on.

The solid board cutter with the solid board plugs is good if you only need a small access hole (111 or 127mm) just got to be careful to miss any pipes, I usually put the heating on and run some hot water then scan the floor with a thermal imager before drilling

 

[Dustydazzler]

As mentioned above NEVER cut along the tongue as if it is glued down it will just disintegrate when you try to rip it up

The last re-wire I did with weetabix floors , I cut a rectangle hole between the joists with a multi-tool and then used some off cuts of 4x2 and screwed to the sides of the joists and then put the bit back in the hole or cut a new out of some 22mm ply board.
Took blooming ages this way but no damages to the ceilings and once the carpets went back you would never know I had been.

 

[Donkeybrains]

so, go back to proper floorboards , TG real wood. nails/screws. sod the weetabix sheets,

The cost of wood for that today is expensive. T&G is about £15 a sheet.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The cost of wood for that today is expensive. T&G is about £15 a sheet.

Proper re-claimed floor boards are crazy expensive , you think they used to go in the skip now they go straight on Ebay along with any pulled out white red black cable that gets measured coiled up ad listed straight on Ebay.
I am getting well over £1 per mtr for red black twin n earth

 

[freddo]

The prctice these days is to D4 glue 22mm T&G chipboard together and to the joists. Then follow with nails or screws.

Glued chipboard floors shouldn't be nailed or screwed after, or they will start squeaking after a few years.

 

[telectrix]

my solution is get a chippie to do it. then if there's any problems, it's his fault, not yours.

 

[Dustydazzler]

my solution is get a chippie to do it. then if there's any problems, it's his fault, not yours.

I have tried getting a chippie in for pre rewire prep to get flooring up and they aren't interested , they all say its too much agro and not worth the headache

 

[nicebutdim]

I’ve used the drill kits with the plastic laid in plugs before.
About 8 plugs in one house across two bedrooms.
They just lie in loose on a rebated edge. Not fixed… so luckily most of the holes ended up inside a built in wardrobe, or under furniture… not getting walked on.

Some provide plastic plugs, whereas others have steel plates to bond into place. Often wondered which (if either) was the better option.

 

[freddo]

Some provide plastic plugs, whereas others have steel plates to bond into place. Often wondered which (if either) was the better option.

I've used both types, haven't had any issues with either. I don't prefer one over the other.

 

[swaRRR]

I am getting well over £1 per mtr for red black twin n earth

Why are they buying this? For nostalgia or weigh in?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Why are they buying this? For nostalgia or weigh in?

I really don't know , and I honestly don't care

Some bloke paid me nearly £100 the other day for 40mtrs of 4mm red/black T&e that I pulled out of a job

The mind boggles as he could easily go to Screwfix and get a 50mtr drum for less

 

[nicebutdim]

Why are they buying this? For nostalgia or weigh in?

Most likely to pass new work off as existing circuits.

Why else would you install 20 year old cable at higher cost than new?

 

[Dustydazzler]

Most likely to pass new work off as existing circuits.

Why else would you install 20 year old cable at higher cost than new?

My guess was pure Nostalgia and not wanting to mix colours

But if you could get your hands on enough old cable you could wire an entire house is old colours and say it was done pre Part Pee ?

 

[nicebutdim]

My guess was pure Nostalgia and not wanting to mix colours

But if you could get your hands on enough old cable you could wire an entire house is old colours and say it was done pre Part Pee ?

Nostalgia and the fitting of NOS parts is one thing, but I don't buy it in this case - especially when using old colours might be considered a means of bypassing regulations. Do you make many sales to NI, where Part P doesn't exist? Somehow I doubt it.

My father produced some old coloured cable when I was rewiring their house. I don't think he considered for one second that adding 20 years to newly installed cables was anything other than a good idea, when it might save me a few quid. Must ask if he still has it and get it on ebay.

 

[OnlQQker]

I've always found that is not the best solution unless you batten all the edges after a year or two the chipboard distorts and leaves a slightly sunk patch in the floor

Not if you screw in a centre timber as well (I don't use baton either, normally 3x2 turned on side, never has an issue yet!). Sometimes if possible I will fix to original joists, it all depends on how big a hole you need.
Also I use 'no more nails on underside of timbers that sale at least 150mm past the edges, then screw down through existing board and hope I don't need to take it back up again in the future (if I can get them in horizontal then I'll make a star 'X' using the same methods. Yet still fill in the horizontals with bit of wood along edges. Hope this makes sense, I'm not very good at explaining stuff.
I only use circular saw though set to 1 mm of final board depth just in case a pipe is tight against underneath of board, in the video he relies on a multi saw, but copper is soft and is easily nicked. the hole in board then bangs out easily enough though without causing damage.

 

[nicebutdim]

I generally go through boards with a mini circular saw, making several passes if I've no idea of depth. Don't think I'll ever become overconfident about going through floors due to the number of times I've found pipes tight to the underside.

The idea of a solid board cutter appeals to me - so much so that I picked one up cheap on an Amazon warehouse deal, but haven't yet used it as (so far) there has always been a more attractive option.

 

[Donkeybrains]

Glued chipboard floors shouldn't be nailed or screwed after, or they will start squeaking after a few years.

The board manufacturers advice is screw and glue.

 

[Donkeybrains]

I really don't know , and I honestly don't care

Some bloke paid me nearly £100 the other day for 40mtrs of 4mm red/black T&e that I pulled out of a job

The mind boggles as he could easily go to Screwfix and get a 50mtr drum for less

I know what he was up to, doing work that looks as if it was done years ago. The change in colours is a good give away.

 

[Donkeybrains]

Most likely to pass new work off as existing circuits.

Why else would you install 20 year old cable at higher cost than new?

Ha missed you, snap.

 

[UNG]

Not if you screw in a centre timber as well (I don't use baton either, normally 3x2 turned on side, never has an issue yet!). Sometimes if possible I will fix to original joists, it all depends on how big a hole you need.
Also I use 'no more nails on underside of timbers that sale at least 150mm past the edges, then screw down through existing board and hope I don't need to take it back up again in the future (if I can get them in horizontal then I'll make a star 'X' using the same methods. Yet still fill in the horizontals with bit of wood along edges. Hope this makes sense, I'm not very good at explaining stuff.
I only use circular saw though set to 1 mm of final board depth just in case a pipe is tight against underneath of board, in the video he relies on a multi saw, but copper is soft and is easily nicked. the hole in board then bangs out easily enough though without causing damage.

Your post is very informative and it is always interesting to understand how others in the trade do things,
I have used a similar method many years ago before using the Routabout but found battening round pipes a bit of a faf and time consuming or not being able to batten it out properly because of pipes running along the edge of the hole. I still take out floor sections on some jobs when I need access close to a wall and rather than a straight cut I cut in at an angle so the piece that is removed can if needed be dropped back into the hole and shimmed round the edges before refixing if getting battens in is difficult
I have often thought that the Routabout rings are expensive and in the last few years the price has significantly increased but your post has actually made me think that the Routabout system is still extremely cost effective when you analyse the materials and time taken using your method.
Ok there is some cost initially with the Routabout system and occasionally having to buy a new cutter, the router I have is also used for other jobs so not an exclusive purchase to use the Routabout system it may be different if it was for the sole use of the Routabout
As with most things there are pros and cons to all methods of doing a job and no one method is necessarily the defacto method although we can all pick up tips and tricks from the way others work

 

[Donkeybrains]

I shall carry out a test. I have two Wolf Easi joist samples. Ill get a length of P5, glue and screw leave a few days then take a pry bar to the board to simulate lifting. Damaging the board isnt the issue they are cheap. My query is does the lifing take a layer off the Easi joist at the same time.

 

[timhoward]

@UNG I’m interested in the routabaout system. I’ve been trying to find out whether any router can be used or only their own?

 

[UNG]

@UNG I’m interested in the routabaout system. I’ve been trying to find out whether any router can be used or only their own?

Any router that can take a 30mm guide bush will do, I use a Makita ½in router so I can use the ½in shank cutter as the the ¼in cutter shank is a bit weak and can easily shear if you push it too hard as I found out also the ½in routers are generally a bit more powerful, although I have used ¼in and 5/16in routers with the Routabout. The ¼in router works hard and even taking your time it is tool abuse territory and with alot of use would probably burn out, the 5/16in router is better but still has the limitation of the ¼in shank cutter IMO the ½in router just feels more positive

 

[Mike Johnson]

Anyone used these: Cavity Access Master Kit - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Tools_Index/Cavity_Access/index.html

 

[Dustydazzler]

Anyone used these: Cavity Access Master Kit - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Tools_Index/Cavity_Access/index.html

I have borrowed one of these off a mate before and for small jobs where you just need 1 or2 access points to stick your hand in the floor void they are quiet good. You can glue in a metal cover plate once finished and be on your way in no time.

But no good if you need to get a drill in and drill a hole in the joist

 

[Mike Johnson]

Was never a problem with herringbone strutting, the advent of solid noggins has made the job more difficult for anyone who needs access, but easier for the chippy, unless you need access at right angles to the joists.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Was never a problem with herringbone strutting, the advent of solid noggins has made the job more difficult for anyone who needs access, but easier for the chippy, unless you need access at right angles to the joists.

Solid noggins have been the electricians nightmare , I love working in old houses with the cross noggins where you can simply rod from one side of the room to the other...
Solid noggins are a pain in the arse

 

[Donkeybrains]

Anyone used these: Cavity Access Master Kit - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Tools_Index/Cavity_Access/index.html

Solid noggins have been the electricians nightmare , I love working in old houses with the cross noggins where you can simply rod from one side of the room to the other...
Solid noggins are a pain in the arse

Wolf Easi joist. A must for an intelligent house. Ive used nearly 3Km of Cat 6 in the house Im building. Nightmare with standard joists.

Home - Wolf System Easi Joists

Easi Joists from Wolf System

www.easijoist.com

 

[Mike Johnson]

Solid noggins have been the electricians nightmare , I love working in old houses with the cross noggins where you can simply rod from one side of the room to the other...
Solid noggins are a pain in the arse

If the chippy just used a bit of imagination and drilled a couple of large access holes in each solid brace it would make life easier if the electrician/plumber knew they where there, but again a bit more work for the chippy, so will not happen.

Conversely if the electrician/plumber drilled them during fist fix, but then they would not have anything to moan about.

 

[swaRRR]

My father produced some old coloured cable when I was rewiring their house.

Naughty naughty

 

[nicebutdim]

Naughty naughty

?