What would you do in an instance like this?

[Shanep92]

So a quick catch up so you can get an idea…

I was asked to do a job for another electrician, as he is too busy. I’m busy myself but said I’d spare time if and when I could - so anyways I’m simply told that “the ex husband has wired it all, he’s an electrician and it’s just a second fix to complete and test” as the other electrician had been around and looked at all this prior.

I get there and the first thing I find is a 16mm twin and earth feeding a db, without any supplementary bonding, on a tncs system, so I inform that this is undersized and needs to be addressed. I’m told to just do an Adiabatic, but again, I inform that this method only applies to cables that are over 16mm2.

The actual 1st fix itself, well, it was DIY at best, I found the new circuits filled with joint boxes everywhere, with cables that were going nowhere attached to said junction boxes, red and blacks that had been chopped at the other end connected in with new cables, multiple heater spurs (as one radial) spurred off a ring, joists drilled everywhere with no thoughts to permissible zones or locations, a new set of notches 3” deep and about the same wide on a 6” joist, A socket that had 5 cables in it, 3 back to the board and 2 spurs, it’s a list that goes on and on.

So fast forward a few weeks of head scratching and basically rewiring the whole place again… (when I have had the time to go)

Client has basically messaged me to say if it is not completed by a certain date then they won’t be paying, but the main electrician hasn’t been back since, so it’s my fuel, my time, and my labour that’s being threatened, not his.

The fact is what the job was meant to be and what it turned out to be are two completely separate things, the client will of obviously known this right from the start, has pulled a fast one, and the initial electrician should of checked things properly before even contemplating the job to of gotten a grasp for this. I know I shouldn’t have went back right from the start, and none of you probably would of, but my personality seems to of done me over here, especially as I’m still quite green to it all (been qualified a few years but I’m trying to pick up the courage to go it alone, this saga as a whole hasn’t helped that one bit ).

Basically, what I’m asking is, especially for the more seasoned guys, What would you do from here? And how would you go about doing it?

Thanks In advance

 

[buzzlightyear]

Basically, what I’m asking is, especially for the more seasoned guys, What would you do from here? And how would you go about doing it?

Front door walk.

 

[James]

Send them a bill for what you have done so far, make it clear that you will not be returning until payment has been made.

sounds like this job has gone bad on more than one occasion, don’t be the guy picking up the pieces and trying to assemble them into a profit.

 

[westward10]

If there was no contract in place they cannot make such demands.

 

[nicebutdim]

If there was no contract in place they cannot make such demands.

There's nothing to stop them sending an invoice. At worst they don't get paid, which appears likely to happen anyway.

 

[snowhead]

First response at this point would have been to turn the job down, alarm bells already:

so anyways I’m simply told that “the ex husband has wired it all, he’s an electrician and it’s just a second fix to complete and test” as the other electrician had been around and looked at all this prior.

Re the current position, write if off and walk now, you won't get fully paid in the end.
You could try an invoice for work to date, if they pay, unlikely, then you only loose the final work.

Finally don't take any more work off the other electrician, he knew what the issues would be hence why he passed on the job.

 

[LukeD]

No matter what ...before work starts .A 'client" has to be formed and that "client" needs to be aware they will be paying you directly .Anything else is not worth dealing with .

 

[Shanep92]

Thank you all for the much nicer responses than I expected. I was expecting to get rinsed here I understand I made a bad call with even going in the first place, and from there it just went from bad, to worse, to worse.

I don’t think the other electrician knew any different, I don’t think there was any malice behind the work, I just believe it’s a massive a lack of experience and knowing what to look for initially, plus a rush and go kinda look, e.g the submain cable should of been picked up on straight away. But I won’t be doing nothing more I’ll just be making my excuses and ducking.

I am working full time but have been trying to make the jump on my own. Especially as I have had so many positive and reassuring customers of my own that it is still an avenue I want to pursue, but this one has knocked me back slightly, the customer is hard work, will speak to you like she stepped in you, and the work itself, well that speaks for itself!

Thank you all for the swift, decent and honest replies

 

[davesparks]

I get there and the first thing I find is a 16mm twin and earth feeding a db, without any supplementary bonding, on a tncs system, so I inform that this is undersized and needs to be addressed.

Doesn't sound undersized, why does the DB need supplementary bonding?

I’m told to just do an Adiabatic, but again, I inform that this method only applies to cables that are over 16mm2

No, the adiabatic equation can be used for any cable size. I think you are confusing this with the other method of selecting CPC size which allows a reduced CPC size above 16mm.

 

[James]

Thank you all for the much nicer responses than I expected. I was expecting to get rinsed here I understand I made a bad call with even going in the first place, and from there it just went from bad, to worse, to worse.



Thank you all for the swift, decent and honest replies

Many, if not most of us tradesmen/women have at some point been "taken for a ride" by a customer.
we feel your pain and are not going to rub salt in the wound.

Don't give up too easy about getting some money out of the customer, even if it is not the whole lot owed.

Start by writing a letter preferably a covering letter for the invoice you are sending.
keep it professional detailing the works carried out so far and the timetable for completion of each stage or the finished completion date only if more applicable.

Detail the costs so far and expected costs involved to complete the work.
if you have not got a written contract of any sort, then be sure to point out in the letter that you expect payment or a response to the letter detailing when they intend to pay before any more work will be done.

even if they only text you some rude response, keep with it and be professional in your response of

Thank you for responding to my letter dated 25/05/2023 by your reply I am getting the impression you have no intention to pay my invoice for the work done at your property to date. If you do intent to pay, please let me know when to expect payment.

kind regards,
Shane the sparky

by detailing everything done so far and almost hiding it within the rest of the letter that goes on about remaining work and timescales etc. you are hoping that they respond to something detailed in there because it would look good to a county court helping you to prove that they have received and read the letter if they respond to any part of it.

if they later claim they had no idea it would be that much then you can point out that they were made aware of the costs to date in the letter they replied to.

keep screenshots of any text messages and notes of any phone calls including times and dates.

If it all goes bad, use the county court to lodge a claim against them for the invoiceable amount and your costs.
last time I did it, it cost £50 to lodge the claim.

you have little to loose and everything to gain.
they have a lot to loose and assuming the bill is not massive, it would normally be advisable for them to pay rather than fight.

If they cant defend themselves to the point they can convince the court that nothing is owed, they will end up with a CCJ against them and that will make everything more difficult for them, from re mortgaging the house to getting a new mobile phone.

 

[Shanep92]

Doesn't sound undersized, why does the DB need supplementary bonding?


No, the adiabatic equation can be used for any cable size. I think you are confusing this with the other method of selecting CPC size which allows a reduced CPC size above 16mm.

The 6mm is the main bond, the water and gas go back to the db in question in 10mm, then there’s a 6mm (contained in the twin and earth) around 40 metres, from the db back to the cutout.

Table 54.7 basically requires that anything with a line conductor up to 16mm Requires the same sized earthing conductor also.

 

[davesparks]

The 6mm is the main bond, the water and gas go back to the db in question in 10mm, then there’s a 6mm (contained in the twin and earth) around 40 metres, from the db back to the cutout.

In that case I see the issue, i didn't when you said supplementary bonding as that's not what that is.

Table 54.7 basically requires that anything with a line conductor up to 16mm Requires the same sized earthing conductor also.

Yes, but the adiabatic equation is an alternative to using table 54.7 and can be used for any size cable.
You do not have to use that table, you can calculate CPC size for any circuit.

 

[oscar21]

The CPC would still need to be at least 10mm though for the bonding, its no good taking a 10mm bond to a submain that only has a 6mm earth.

 

[MJPD29]

I would agree with the others on invoicing for what has been done, getting paid and leaving it at that. Their demands are entirely unreasonable and would be difficult for them to enforce without a written contract. As for being green, there are many difficult people in life and it will not be the last you encounter, but you get to know people you want to deal with and those who you don’t.

 

[ipf]

It's right to invoice for work carried out.
I'm presuming this is an empty premises. Whatever, the main loser is the client. A house standing empty isn't exactly good for the owner, from an economic point of view.
Do they want the job done or what? Let 'em squirm.

 

[Welchyboy1]

“the ex husband has wired it all, he’s an electrician and it’s just a second fix to complete and test”

At this point, most experienced electricians would of had the hairs on the back of their neck stand up and they make their excuses and walk away at the first polite opportunity!

The previous electrician who was ‘too busy’ to do the job obviously felt the same

The main thing to take away from this is to learn by it for the future, try to get paid for your work, you may or may not get the money owed to you, but definitely learn from it!

There is so much work out there, let stuff like this be someone else‘s problem, be the electrician who is ‘too busy’ in the future


(been qualified a few years but I’m trying to pick up the courage to go it alone, this saga as a whole hasn’t helped that one bit ).

Dont let it discourage you, it’s a lesson every single one of us has to learn sooner or later, being naturally friendly and trying to help people and expect that others intentions are the same as yours is just human, but realise unfortunately not everyone is the same as you, again learn from it, and you’ll be better prepared next time around and hopefully won’t make the same mistake again

All part of the bumpy road to success

 

[WallaceP]

How much time and material have you spent on the job so far?
I would ask for this now and carefully think how much it will cost to finish the job, double or triple this cost.
Explain the the customer in the simplest terms what is required to do the job correctly and the cost, let them know if they are not happy with this unexpected cost, you can recommend other electricians who can quote for the work(you wont, but it gives them an easy way out and encourages them to settle you invoice).

Then take the money and run.

 

[Petej999]

Front door walk.

make sure you have all your personal stuff before you do the walk though

 

[Shanep92]

Thank you all for the kind and honest replies.

It’s a life lesson I’ll keep with me for a very long time. There’s so much rapport regarding bad tradesmen and tradesmen who don’t complete jobs fully or to an expected standard but there’s also never any feedback on how potential customers actually behave and treat said tradesmen.

Either way Never going back and never looking back. Thanks again