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So I've seen some posts in the past about smart switches needing a neutral at the switch. I have a rewire coming up and was planning to use 3 core and earth as the switch line for some switches (2 gang switch will need just 1 neutral from a 3 core earth and the other SL can be T+E) as the switch will be eating a neutral. I'm only doing this for a outside the box, future proof idea. Going to be using hager accessories and they have a neutral loop terminal.
Is it a bit of an overkill? I have looked for some smart switches and a lot of them don't even require a neutral.
 
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ipf

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Nothing wrong at all. Regarding multi gang switches, it wouldn't usually do to wire two switch wires in a three core, anyway.......if they're going to different lighting positions.
Don't trust those 'neutral eaters', either.:confused:
 

ipf

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I believe it is in the 18th edition that consideration should be given to making the neutral available at switches.
Once again, no instruction to....anything to prevent head scratching.
Don't forget to leave your spare ways in a new CU/DB, for instance.
 

davesparks

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Once again, no instruction to....anything to prevent head scratching.
Don't forget to leave your spare ways in a new CU/DB, for instance.
Maybe they assume electricians are intelligent and don't need to be spoon-fed instructions?

Yes of course you should leave spare ways in a DB, are you suggesting that the IET should be dictating a set amount of spare ways that must be allowed for?
 

ipf

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Maybe they assume electricians are intelligent and don't need to be spoon-fed instructions?

Yes of course you should leave spare ways in a DB, are you suggesting that the IET should be dictating a set amount of spare ways that must be allowed for?
No, just make your own mind up.
Oh, and, maybe, such assumptions shouldn't be made lightly with all the basic, spoon-fed crap that is provided these days.
 

Gavin John Hyde

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I suspect in time we will see it a requirement for a line, neutral and cpcto be available at every point and like we test for continuity of cpc we will also have to tick to prove continuity of the neutral.
It makes sense if you think about it as it helps future proof the install, especially with growing smart homes
 
So I've seen some posts in the past about smart switches needing a neutral at the switch. I have a rewire coming up and was planning to use 3 core and earth as the switch line for some switches (2 gang switch will need just 1 neutral from a 3 core earth and the other SL can be T+E) as the switch will be eating a neutral. I'm only doing this for a outside the box, future proof idea. Going to be using hager accessories and they have a neutral loop terminal.
Is it a bit of an overkill? I have looked for some smart switches and a lot of them don't even require a neutral.
It will never be a disadvantage to have a neutral available at the switch. Overkill it is not. Seconly you are prepared for any surprises regarding the homeowners choice of light fittings. Having a single t&e at the light point I find is always reassuring in this, regard. So many light fittings nowadays don't have terminal large enough to support a loop neural.
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I suspect in time we will see it a requirement for a line, neutral and cpcto be available at every point and like we test for continuity of cpc we will also have to tick to prove continuity of the neutral.
It makes sense if you think about it as it helps future proof the install, especially with growing smart homes
Agreed
 

darkwood

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I loop in and out of switches with neutrals, the old attitude and stigma was baseless and unfounded and in modern times actually is more beneficial due to technology and options... anyone disagrees with having a neutral at a switch I am happy to take criticism but only if they can back up been against it with a valid viewpoint or regulation.
 
I suspect in time we will see it a requirement for a line, neutral and cpcto be available at every point and like we test for continuity of cpc we will also have to tick to prove continuity of the neutral.
It makes sense if you think about it as it helps future proof the install, especially with growing smart homes
I loop in and out of switches with neutrals, the old attitude and stigma was baseless and unfounded and in modern times actually is more beneficial due to technology and options... anyone disagrees with having a neutral at a switch I am happy to take criticism but only if they can back up been against it with a valid viewpoint or regulation.
There will always be some arguments against it but no valid ones.
 

littlespark

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Looping at switches makes fault finding easier. Straight forward understanding.

although dropping a 3 core gives you that neutral at the switch, it’s just a redundant cable until it’s needed.
3 cores only for linking 2 way switches for ease
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Nothing wrong at all. Regarding multi gang switches, it wouldn't usually do to wire two switch wires in a three core, anyway.......if they're going to different lighting positions.
Don't trust those 'neutral eaters', either.:confused:
Hi you kind of lost me here, maybe I’m not reading it properly. What did u mean with multi gang switches it wouldn’t do to wire to switch wires ina three core? Thanks in advance
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I believe it is in the 18th edition that consideration should be given to making the neutral available at switches.
Yes I’ve come across this, for the purpose of easy fault finding? The neutral I’m running to a switch is not loop in and out to each switch like a 2 plate system. It’s going to be normal 3 plate with a redundant neutral like @littlespark mentioned.
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This question I’m going to ask I am probably answering myself but... I’ve never used 3 core for switch lines (only strappers). The lighting feed will be 1.5mm but am I still good to get the switch cables 3 core in 1mm? Reason being is I’ll buy the 3 core drums for the smokes, fans, switch lines and strappers on the same drum. But when it comes to strapping and I need to stick 3 cores in one terminal possibly for porch wiring I don’t want to be trying to drill the terminal hole bigger for me to fit them in, hahah only joking but yeah...? I know 1mm can still handle what the lighting circuit will take, is there anything against this? I know this is a easy question but just making sure.
 
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telectrix

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bear in mind that eche section of 1.0mm 3 core whether switch wires or strappers, only carries the load of 1 fitting ( or multipe fittings e.g. downlights), not the load of the whole circuit.
 
I think running neutrals to light switches is a good idea in the larger rooms in a house. For the utility room or the cupboard under the stairs, not required.
Also is the end of the 16mm deep box here? Again for larger rooms should we only fit 25mm or deeper to allow for future flat plates/dimmers/smart switches?
 

ipf

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Hi you kind of lost me here, maybe I’m not reading it properly. What did u mean with multi gang switches it wouldn’t do to wire to switch wires ina three core? Thanks in advance
I misread regarding the 3c and twin.....no problem.

As regards neutrals at switches, in general......whichever way suits.
It's very handy at switches but I have found situations, in the past, when it has been handy having a live at the light point....for pick up.
 
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happyhippydad

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I misread regarding the 3c and twin.....no problem.

As regards neutrals at switches, in general......whichever way suits.
It's very handy at switches but I have found situations, in the past, when it has been handy having a live at the light point....for pick up.
You would still have a PL at each light fitting as you would be taking a 3core+E from the switch to the light fitting if you are looping in and out through the switch.
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This is an interesting thread.
Do you guys actually do this on a rewire?
Would the main reason be so that the light switch could be usable by smart technology?
I think I may now at least discuss it with the client as an option.
 

Midwest

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If everyone started making and installing stuff like Philips Hue, one wouldn't need wired switches. Anyhows, in a few years electricery will be all done on WIFI or Bluetooth or something else, and there won't be need for electricians. :)
 

ipf

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You would still have a PL at each light fitting as you would be taking a 3core+E from the switch to the light fitting if you are looping in and out through the switch.
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Whichever way it's wired a 3core does the job. It's just a matter of pros and cons for each method. A deeper box, these days, sums it up.
Not done house bashing since Volex went out of fashion, anyway. ;) :)
 
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
bear in mind that eche section of 1.0mm 3 core whether switch wires or strappers, only carries the load of 1 fitting ( or multipe fittings e.g. downlights), not the load of the whole circuit.
Yeah this is exactly what I was thinking, it’s only taking the load for the lights it will be switching. Thanks for confirming
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I think running neutrals to light switches is a good idea in the larger rooms in a house. For the utility room or the cupboard under the stairs, not required.
Also is the end of the 16mm deep box here? Again for larger rooms should we only fit 25mm or deeper to allow for future flat plates/dimmers/smart switches?
I’m definitely only fitting 35mm back boxes minimum on this rewire, nothing less.
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I misread regarding the 3c and twin.....no problem.

As regards neutrals at switches, in general......whichever way suits.
It's very handy at switches but I have found situations, in the past, when it has been handy having a live at the light point....for pick up.
It will be the same old 3 plate wiring system just with the extra core on the switch cable for neutral. Would be a nightmare to run a cable for a live.
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You would still have a PL at each light fitting as you would be taking a 3core+E from the switch to the light fitting if you are looping in and out through the switch.
Post automatically merged:

This is an interesting thread.
Do you guys actually do this on a rewire?
Would the main reason be so that the light switch could be usable by smart technology?
I think I may now at least discuss it with the client as an option.
This will be my first rewire so my first time doing it. I’m not even discussing it with my client, the labour is the same. Cost of cable is near enough the same if u go from 1.5mmTE to 1mm3C.
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in a few years electricery will be all done on WIFI or Bluetooth or something else, and there won't be need for electricians. :)
Until we all team up and buy jamming devices just to get some work back :cool:
 
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happyhippydad

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Yeah this is exactly what I was thinking, it’s only taking the load for the lights it will be switching. Thanks for confirming
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I’m definitely only fitting 35mm back boxes minimum on this rewire, nothing less.
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It will be the same old 3 plate wiring system just with the extra core on the switch cable for neutral. Would be a nightmare to run a cable for a live.
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This will be my first rewire so my first time doing it. I’m not even discussing it with my client, the labour is the same. Cost of cable is near enough the same if u go from 1.5mmTE to 1mm3C.
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Until we all team up and buy jamming devices just to get some work back :cool:
Good luck with your first rewire. :)
 
Yeah this is exactly what I was thinking, it’s only taking the load for the lights it will be switching. Thanks for confirming
Post automatically merged:


I’m definitely only fitting 35mm back boxes minimum on this rewire, nothing less.
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It will be the same old 3 plate wiring system just with the extra core on the switch cable for neutral. Would be a nightmare to run a cable for a live.
Post automatically merged:


This will be my first rewire so my first time doing it. I’m not even discussing it with my client, the labour is the same. Cost of cable is near enough the same if u go from 1.5mmTE to 1mm3C.
Post automatically merged:


Until we all team up and buy jamming devices just to get some work back :cool:
I was on an install yesterday we did in 2007.It had no ceiling. all the Apex timbers were visible as a feature so the light fittings were quite high up.I opened up one dimmer switch. First thing I see is one of the old flat 4 gang wagos (they are back again) with 3 blue wires in it. The neutrals were at the switch. We ran a single T&E to each light point. It meant most of the wiring could be done at the switch (and faultfinding). It's a sweet little system. Deep boxes highly recommended.
While it was, nt our Intention the neutral allows it to be "smart home compliant"
On a, side note. Nice to see the Click flat plate (brushed chrome) dimmers working good as day they went in.
 
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