Observations From France

[gnuuser]

in some cases we use both radial and ring circuits but they must be labeled correctly
same as the circuits in the cu
for example on a lighting ckt the label attached to the conductor would have the maximum breaker size info printed on it.
balancing loads in a radial is an impossibility for the average consumer as they rarely get training on it, and find out they have too much on it when the breaker trips out.
recently i was given a laptop comp with a uk plug on the power pack.
it was an auto switching power supply so it was just a cord swap to use it.
by the way i really like the way the uk plug is designed (fused and rock solid construction)

my biggest complaint with diy and some hack sparks is they will just tap the nearest live conductor without checking its loads and install a utility outlet for heavy loads.
or install a breaker that exceeds the ampacity of the conductors.

 

[overskilled]

From living in North America, I found the NEMA plugs ok for size, but the blades far too flimsy (stand on one...it bends...stand on a uk plug pin...you come off worse)
Also know what you mean about overloaded radials, father in law has a compressor in the basement, turn anything else on while the compressor is running...breaker trips out...
Other thing about NEMA plugs that isn't the greatest is the ability to remove the earth/grounding pin with little or no difficulty....(usually to use them with 2 pin extension cords or ancient outlets...)
Stove plugs aren't a bad idea though...some serious connector pins on those. If I remember correctly theres different 220v plugs depending on the amperage i.e. dryer plugs (20 or 30amps), stove plugs etc...
Though why single insulated "flat" extension cords are still permitted escapes me.....

 

[overskilled]

Also....I never quite got my head round the choice of black and white for conductor colours....though the different pin colours inside rewireable NEMA plugs isn't a bad idea nickel / brass

 

[Lucien Nunes]

so i'm not sure what you mean by the UK being the odd one out?

I meant general use of ring finals. Higher circuit rating, more outlets per circuit, more diversity. You get more flexibility from 1x 32A than 2x 16A but at the cost of complexity and being able to overload the cable. It's a different kettle of fish to ring MV distribution.

 

[Victor]

It is not unusual for me to install a 54 way CU in a 3 to 4 bed house, infact the last one I did a few weeks agr was a 72 way with 4 RCD's

 

[Silly Sausage]

It is not unusual for me to install a 54 way CU in a 3 to 4 bed house, infact the last one I did a few weeks agr was a 72 way with 4 RCD's

!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pays well being an Electrician in France???

 

[Victor]

!!!!!!!!!!!!

Pays well being an Electrician in France???

Not when your materials for a 4 bedroom 2 bathroom house are in the reigion of Euros 3.5k and you pay the tax man 40% of turnover it ain't

 

[telectrix]

haha, well the french government are still paying for the maginot line. money's got to come from somewhere. LOL.

 

[RogertheBodger]

haha, well the french government are still paying for the maginot line. money's got to come from somewhere. LOL.

There's usually a way round it lol

 

[Engineer54]

I meant general use of ring finals. Higher circuit rating, more outlets per circuit, more diversity. You get more flexibility from 1x 32A than 2x 16A but at the cost of complexity and being able to overload the cable. It's a different kettle of fish to ring MV distribution.

Ah, i understand what you were referring to now, not that i would wholly agree with you on the matter though!! ...lol!!

MV ring's are rarely working in a ring configuration, they mainly operate as open rings. The main idea to MV rings is that you can totally isolate, say any RMU or interconnecting cable between RMU's while still supplying all the other RMU's on the ring. Or supply the whole installation from either of the two supply sources....

 

[Marvo]

It is not unusual for me to install a 54 way CU in a 3 to 4 bed house, infact the last one I did a few weeks agr was a 72 way with 4 RCD's

You are joking I assume. I also live in a land where 20A 2.5mm radial circuits are the domestic norm. A normal 3 bedroom house with all the usual appliances would require 3, or maximum 4 radial ccts for sockets, also a dedicated radial for immersion heater and maybe another dedicated radial for swimming pool and/or garage. If you include 2 lighting radials (one upstairs and one downstairs) you're looking at a 12-way DB including main and RCD, 16-way will have plenty of future proofing. If you install a 54 way box you'd have at least 40 ways spare.........a 72 way would have 60 ways spare, handy if you need more cupboard space or somewhere to conceal your gun safe maybe

 

[overskilled]

I could see 32 possibly if its DP MCBs.... (2 ways each)
72 though....how big a house are we talking? :/

 

[Marvo]

D/P MCB's sometimes only take the same space as a single pole

 

[overskilled]

I realise that Marvo
I was just looking at a worst case scenario...

 

[Engineer54]

You are joking I assume. I also live in a land where 20A 2.5mm radial circuits are the domestic norm. A normal 3 bedroom house with all the usual appliances would require 3, or maximum 4 radial ccts for sockets, also a dedicated radial for immersion heater and maybe another dedicated radial for swimming pool and/or garage. If you include 2 lighting radials (one upstairs and one downstairs) you're looking at a 12-way DB including main and RCD, 16-way will have plenty of future proofing. If you install a 54 way box you'd have at least 40 ways spare.........a 72 way would have 60 ways spare, handy if you need more cupboard space or somewhere to conceal your gun safe maybe

If you look in the non-UK Forum, the French spark (forget his name now) posted a photo of a typical domestic French DB, and from what i remember it was very much along the lines of what Victor is saying. Also the French make use of pulse relays quite a lot on lighting circuits, which also adds to the space required in any DB, ...not forgetting the i think obligatory DB Din rail mounted socket outlet!!

I can remember a hospital project in Saudi many moons ago that included staff villas and the like, where the electrical spec was based on French installation standards. Believe me, i'd never seen domestic DB's of the size used on that project. MCB's RCD's and those pulse relays galore!! lol!!

 

[Victor]

The main problem here is that the required number of RCD#s depends on the size of the property, so for a house over 100sqm the required number is 4 of which one would be a type A and the rest type AC. When you combine that with only 8 sockets per circuit and 8 lights per circuit then you really start to fill up a CU.

Regulations also state here that for a new installation or a renovation you must leave 20% of the cu free for future expansion and that you must install 2 x sockets in the cu, it does not take a lot to fill up a 54 way board and if you have electric heating the a 72 way is easy to fill.

 

[Knobhead]

Always thought the French were crazy. Now I know.

OK DP or SP&N switching makes sense. We should adopt it. I do like latched relays for lighting.

No way would a house warrant a 72 way board.