Odd E.V. home charger question

[Inovermyshould]

I will describe my problem in as much detail so you guys might be able to answer my question. I am never home, my Electric bill is $ 28 to $30 a month, has been that way for years.
I recently bought an E.V. so I had an E.V. Charger (Emporia is the brand) installed, hardwired by an Electrician. BTW, charger is set to 40 amps and I don't have breaker box I have fuse box, 50 amp fuses
The 1st month I used my charger 4 times from almost empty to a full charge. The bill was $128 and change, which tells me it cost about $25 per charge when it should cost about $9. My power company rates are
13.2 cents killowatt and Emporia charger will use some power if it is powered on with no use. Emporia told me a few dollars per year. Next I did not use my charger for a month just keeping charger power on. The bill was $ 48. just with charger power on. Finally
I removed fuse cutting all power off charger and the bill was the normal $ 30 and change. My only conclusion is that Charger is costing me about $18 a month just keeping it powered on, but not using it to charge car. Am I crazy? Can this be fixed?

 

[Cbelectrics]

That is a funny one.

Think there are 2 points here to make.

1. Manufacturer
2. Electrical installation

I will just deal with the electrical installation as that’s my area and to be honest, there is not much to it really.

1. Check all screw connections/cable
Terminations are tight. Lose connections can cause heat (fire hazard) and make the system draw more current (use more electricity) when it doesn’t need it.

2. Check the cable sizes are correct for the same reasons above. Remember your voltage is lower in the states as well so cables draw more current, that is, was it manufactured for your voltage?

3. Not sure if you have an earth/ground cable to the ev charger in the states? Check whether you have any earth leakage as some accessories do suffer from this.



Last step would be to check with the manufacturer after covering yourself with the electrical side, then you can tell them everything is fine from that point of view, so now it’s their problem to deal with. Lot of money for something you’re technically not using.

Also remember that some energy providers charge different amounts depending on peak/low peak times - you need to check that as well as your figures may be wrong.

 

[Inovermyshould]

Like I said it was installed by an Electrician. I will try to contact them, next

 

[Cbelectrics]

There is an American thread with a couple of guys from your side of the pond so may be worth posting this there as well

 

[mainline]

I will describe my problem in as much detail so you guys might be able to answer my question. I am never home, my Electric bill is $ 28 to $30 a month, has been that way for years.
I recently bought an E.V. so I had an E.V. Charger (Emporia is the brand) installed, hardwired by an Electrician. BTW, charger is set to 40 amps and I don't have breaker box I have fuse box, 50 amp fuses
The 1st month I used my charger 4 times from almost empty to a full charge. The bill was $128 and change, which tells me it cost about $25 per charge when it should cost about $9. My power company rates are
13.2 cents killowatt and Emporia charger will use some power if it is powered on with no use. Emporia told me a few dollars per year. Next I did not use my charger for a month just keeping charger power on. The bill was $ 48. just with charger power on. Finally
I removed fuse cutting all power off charger and the bill was the normal $ 30 and change. My only conclusion is that Charger is costing me about $18 a month just keeping it powered on, but not using it to charge car. Am I crazy? Can this be fixed?

Have the electrician measure the current being used to the EV.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Install a camera to check if someone else is using the charger

 

[Inovermyshould]

I thought someone might be stealing so after I charge I take photos, nothing was touched. I will ask them if they can measure current being used as mainline suggests.

 

[Julie.]

The current rating of the charge point is largely irrelevant in terms of how much energy is consumed in charging the EV battery, the current rating merely determines how quickly it charges.

The vehicle in-car charger is around 80% efficient, so of you have a car battery of say 100kWhr - you will need to supply around 125kWhr (because of the 80% efficiency) - if it's half charged, around 60kWhr will be used to get it full.

If the charge point is consuming 18usd - at 13cents this would mean around 138kWhr consumption - 200 watts continuously - so would get rather warm.

 

[Cbelectrics]

The current rating of the charge point is largely irrelevant in terms of how much energy is consumed in charging the EV battery, the current rating merely determines how quickly it charges.

The vehicle in-car charger is around 80% efficient, so of you have a car battery of say 100kWhr - you will need to supply around 125kWhr (because of the 80% efficiency) - if it's half charged, around 60kWhr will be used to get it full.

If the charge point is consuming 18usd - at 13cents this would mean around 138kWhr consumption - 200 watts continuously - so would get rather warm.

Do remember mr musk talking about that on rogan.

 

[Inovermyshould]

Hey Julie, My car battery is 65w, at 40 amp takes my car about 6 hours to charge from very low miles to full, How much in your opinion should it cost me for a full charge. My numbers say about 9 dollars. My Emporia app that is set to the correct rate shows just under that amount.

 

[Julie.]

Hey Julie, My car battery is 65w, at 40 amp takes my car about 6 hours to charge from very low miles to full, How much in your opinion should it cost me for a full charge. My numbers say about 9 dollars. My Emporia app that is set to the correct rate shows just under that amount.

I think you mean 65kWhr , but at 80% efficiency

65/.8 = 81.25kWhr

81.25kWhr x 0.13 usd = 10.56 usd

If the charger is 100% efficient

65kWhr x 0.13 usd = 8.45 usd

So somewhere between 8.45 and 10.56 usd depending upon the exact efficiency of your in-car charger and the state of charge.

(9usd would give an efficiency of circ 94% if there was no residual charge left in the battery prior to charging)

 

[Inovermyshould]

Here again my bill, average $30 a month all year round, using the charger 4 times total month was $128. Keeping the charger powered but no car charging was $48 for the month. loosely you could say it cost me $70 for the four charging times about $17 per charge. That is what I am trying to figure out. My Emporia charger should not drain all of the energy. Monday I will call my electrician, they might be able to measure it. Even if they do I will still have those high bills.

 

[Inovermyshould]

Is this a stupid question? is it possible that I am have EV charging drain because I am using a fuse box with 50 amp fuses?

 

[mainline]

Is this a stupid question? is it possible that I am have EV charging drain because I am using a fuse box with 50 amp fuses?

No

 

[Moley]

A bigger fuse doesn't 'push' more current through. The charger will only draw what it needs. If it was 100 amp fuse it would still draw the same current as it is now.

 

[Inovermyshould]

How about the amp default setting of 40amp, wonder if I lowered to 32 amps would make a difference.

 

[Avo Mk8]

My power company rates are 13.2 cents killowatt

Are you sure this is your rate?
Your profile suggests you are in Connecticut.
From what I read that the average domestic rate in Connecticut is around 23.5 cents per kWh.

The reason I ask is that we are working out your usage from the money you pay, but if that is not quite right, your usage may actually be a lot less. It's just that electricity prices in Connecticut have become pretty high!

Do you have other charges to pay as well? Here in the UK we have a 'standing charge' of so much per day, irrespective of how much electricity we use, so it's more tricky to work out actual consumption purely from monthly payments!

 

[Inovermyshould]

Are you sure this is your rate?
Your profile suggests you are in Connecticut.
From what I read that the average domestic rate in Connecticut is around 23.5 cents per kWh.

The reason I ask is that we are working out your usage from the money you pay, but if that is not quite right, your usage may actually be a lot less. It's just that electricity prices in Connecticut have become pretty high!

Do you have other charges to pay as well? Here in the UK we have a 'standing charge' of so much per day, irrespective of how much electricity we use, so it's more tricky to work out actual consumption purely from monthly payments!

Yes, I called them. I have been going over this in my head and can't figure it out but Monday I will call my Electrician, maybe they can measure the power consumption, we will see.

 

[Inovermyshould]

This is the reply from the electrician, who installed charger.

"The wiring is all new and correctly sized (#6AWG - copper) and properly terminated in the charger. The only variable left would be the fuses/panel/service and existing connections on the line side. As stated before, your existing service, meter enclosure, and fuse panel is in disrepair and it is our opinion that it needs replacing. Electrical connections and terminals that are corroded and or loose and not torqued to original specifications can cause significant resistance in conductivity and therefore result in higher power consumption."

 

[brianmoooore]

For a resistive load, a "poor connection" will always decrease consumption.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Yes, I called them. I have been going over this in my head and can't figure it out

I feel the kWh charge you have been told by the electricity company is not the whole story, as it does not seem compatible with average electricity costs in your area. Is it backed up by the information on your invoices?

The electricity company seem to have given you the base level rate (GSC charge) of 13.2 Cents per kWh, but from what I see, other charges are normally added to that (for every kWh unit you use, eg: transmission charge ~4 cents, Distribution charge ~5 cents, System improvements charge ~ 1 cent, etc. etc.

See: Electricity - https://portal.ct.gov/OCC/Electricity/Electricity/Electricity

If this is relevant to your situation, you should be paying between 21 and 27 cents per kWh, which is less than I pay here in the UK, and more consistent with the billing for the EV you are receiving. Taking Julie's sums, a full charge would be 81.25 (kWh) x $0.23 = $18.7 for a full charge (or up to $22 at the higher average price below).
I really don't think there is anything wrong with your electricity supply, I just think that the pricing structure has changed so much since Covid that you cannot make comparisons with what costs used to be!

 

[Inovermyshould]

I feel the kWh charge you have been told by the electricity company is not the whole story, as it does not seem compatible with average electricity costs in your area. Is it backed up by the information on your invoices?

The electricity company seem to have given you the base level rate (GSC charge) of 13.2 Cents per kWh, but from what I see, other charges are normally added to that (for every kWh unit you use, eg: transmission charge ~4 cents, Distribution charge ~5 cents, System improvements charge ~ 1 cent, etc. etc.

See: Electricity - https://portal.ct.gov/OCC/Electricity/Electricity/Electricity

If this is relevant to your situation, you should be paying between 21 and 27 cents per kWh, which is less than I pay here in the UK, and more consistent with the billing for the EV you are receiving. Taking Julie's sums, a full charge would be 81.25 (kWh) x $0.23 = $18.7 for a full charge (or up to $22 at the higher average price below).
I really don't think there is anything wrong with your electricity supply, I just think that the pricing structure has changed so much since Covid that you cannot make comparisons with what costs used to be!

I just e-mailed Emporia and if or when they respond I will post it. My main concern was how is it possible if i keep charger powered up but not using it tp charge ,how in the world can my charger draw so much power.

 

[Avo Mk8]

I just e-mailed Emporia and if or when they respond I will post it. My main concern was how is it possible if i keep charger powered up but not using it tp charge ,how in the world can my charger draw so much power.

Yes, apologies, I was thinking about costs in general.

It would have been helpful if your electrician had put a clamp ammeter on the lead to the EV charger while he was installing it, and measured the quiescent current it takes. I wonder if he would be prepared to return and measure it, since you are having this problem. That would show if the EV charger is responsible..

Emporia sell a comprehensive energy monitor that can monitor all circuits in a house, but it's costly. I wondered if an inexpensive single channel device might help diagnosis.
This might help to indicate if there is a problem, but I suspect it may not be particularly accurate:

https://www.amazon.com/Current-Amperage-Voltmeter-Multimeter-Transformer/dp/B07JB9B2QL/ref=pd_day0_d_sccl_2_2/147-0085846-2302054?

 

[Inovermyshould]

I think it is my old system.. The electricians were from Qmerit that works with GM, they came to the house looked it over before agreeing to do it. Told me to upgrade. Qmerit also needed pics of my system.