Old sub-mains cable... safe?

[pangy101]

Hi there, we've just moved into a 30's property that was rewired in the 60s. With an old Wylex CU and a single faulty RCD needless to say we're getting it rewired as soon as we can.

The only thing that concerns me is that the mains power comes in overhead, into the loft, and then is routed through cables and passes through a partition wall to the cutout on 1st floor, then onto the meter and CU on ground floor.

I have been told that the cutout main fuse is just 50amp, so I've applied for a load increase to an 80amp ready for the rewire. Without looking NEDL say that the cables might be sufficient, which I seriously doubt (can't tell their thickness though). It also looks a bit dodgy in the loft where the main cables go through into the partition wall. I've attached a few photos, does this look normal, or a bit dilapidated?

When the electricians do the rewire they're going to have to trace the path of the submain through the partition, so that it isn't interfered with. I've read other 'scare reports' of old submains exploding when the cables are moved slightly, I wouldn't have thought this was possible unless the insulation was seriously degraded.

The pics attached also show that the lighting circuit wires go through the same holes as the submain, so I'm a bit concerned about getting too close to the main cable, is this valid or is it pretty safe unless chopped into of course!

Cheers

1. Pic 1 & 2 - metal conduit containing the mains cable
2. Pic 3 & 4 - where the cables leave the conduit

 

[Sparky Ninja]

On first look, it appears that they may be VIR cables. I would expect the supply authority would have to replace all of that when they upgrade the supply.

 

[mechelec]

I would not want them running through my loft!! Most DNO's will not run services through lofts now and will probably fit an ouside meter box, then you will have to run a sub main to your CU

 

[pangy101]

That's what I'm concerned about - they said that 'their estimators are experienced' and will probably not need to visit, and so will they realise that the cables need replacing (and run through the loft) or should I give them a call? Does anybody know what NEDLs policy is on upgrading the supply - I don't (like everybody I suppose ) really want to pay NEDL for updating their dilapidated equipment which looks past its service life anyway, but are they likely to charge me for the privilege, and are we talking £200 or £2000? Thanks for the replies!

 

[Sparky Ninja]

As a customer you should be supplied a safe and sufficient system. If it is currently unsafe then they should upgrade it at their cost. It's when you ask for a supply to be upgraded for your optional development, or a reposition of the supply, that they should only charge you for it.

Looking at the existing layout, I would expect they will just rip it out (although they may just leave what the eye cannot see) and install an upgrade down your outside wall.

 

[BlueToBits]

I agree. By the look of the pics Widdler has it right that they will probably want to replace them. Our local REC would set a date for a linesman to upgrade the cut-out. He would arrive, take one look and disappear. You eventually get a new date for them to supply new cables. They would turn up and then dissapear because the cutout is more than 600mm from the point of entry of the cable. New date. This time a surveyor who takes some measurements and disappears. New date new engineer. Not been given the correct parts/not authorised to make the joint and disappears. New date..........

Try to get their surveyor to assess asap. It could save a lot of time.
good luck

 

[telectrix]

agree with all here. first thing would be not to request an upgrade ( chargeable) but to inform DNO of your concerns about the safety of their supply, and request them to inspect and remedy. once they do this, they will more than likely include the upgrade for free.

 

[Sparky Ninja]

I agree. By the look of the pics Widdler has it right that they will probably want to replace them. Our local REC would set a date for a linesman to upgrade the cut-out. He would arrive, take one look and disappear. You eventually get a new date for them to supply new cables. They would turn up and then dissapear because the cutout is more than 600mm from the point of entry of the cable. New date. This time a surveyor who takes some measurements and disappears. New date new engineer. Not been given the correct parts/not authorised to make the joint and disappears. New date..........

Try to get their surveyor to assess asap. It could save a lot of time.
good luck

agree with all here. first thing would be not to request an upgrade ( chargeable) but to inform DNO of your concerns about the safety of their supply, and request them to inspect and remedy. once they do this, they will more than likely include the upgrade for free.

Tip top advice on both counts.

 

[telectrix]

are we all now going to bid for the rewire job??????

 

[pangy101]

Tip top advice on both counts.

I agree thanks for the advice guys, will definitely come in useful! Just spoken to Freedom (NEDLs contractors I think?) and they've assigned a linesman to come and assess the situation - hopefully he'll replace the whole cable in the loft. I tried mentioning the VIR cables and will need a surveyor etc... but apparently I've still got to run through the motions. Hopefully if the cables are then up to it he'll stick an 80amp fuse in

 

[pangy101]

Just out of interest... if he comes along and says the cables are safe as they're rubber but not cracking (what NEDL told me!) is there an argument or regulation I could come back with or should I consider them safe and not in need of replacement? Cheers!

 

[pushrod]

I was told by a meter replacement guy that the quickest way to get them to come out is to say you smelt burning - smell doesn't have to be there when they come out. Just acting as a normal customer it worked for me, there within 2.5 hours.

 

[pangy101]

Lol might just try that if their quoted 6-8 weeks turns into 6-8 months...

 

[pushrod]

Lol might just try that if their quoted 6-8 weeks turns into 6-8 months...

Honestly i wouldn't hesitate to do it, especially with all that insulation up there. Just say you were up in the loft looking for something and there were quite a few appliances switched on downstairs and you could smell burning. Those cables are seriously old!

For all you know they could well be over heating when there is a heavy load on them.

 

[telectrix]

and just take a gander at your latest leccy bill. you've already paid them to do the work so, burning smell it is!

 

[BlueToBits]

Our local REC won't allow more than a minimal distance of cable to the cut-out to enter the building (600mm from an underground supply) . No way would they run their cable through a loft. Apart from liability issues, the cable would be vulnerable to fraud.

 

[Andyfm]

I tend to find locally (EDF) that if you have requested a move or meter box install they will want ducting installed either underground or through the roofspace, but if its their responsibility due to age etc they will just run them back in the loft

 

[pangy101]

Thanks to all the responses from everyone! Just an update that Freedom (from NEDL) have been round, re-routed the cable around the outside of the house and installed a new cutout next to the meter. Removed sub-main in the loft and the old 50amp cutout!

 

[telectrix]

for free i hope

 

[pushrod]

Just out of interest was it just good luck that they came in 2 weeks rather than the 6-8 weeks you mentioned or did you have to be a little inventive?