PIR's with LED's

[eagleeye]

I've just wired up a few new lights for a back yard at a pub and have a problem. There are 4 28 watt 2D bulkhead fittings (which i have converted to LED with the retrofit replacement LED tray) and also a 400 watt flood with PIR. I have wired the PIR's together so any one of the 3 will turn on the lights. When i switched power back on it tripped the MCB. I disconnected the live feeding the PIR on the flood and MCB stayed on but none of the other lights came on. I have 240 volt going to all PIR's but just nothing coming out.

Anyone got any ideas ?

I got all the gear from CEF. The PIR's are Challenger SL180's and the LED retrofit 2D trays are Tamlite - Infinity 2D, 12 watt.

And to be honest the LED replacement i have fitted before have not been these plug in type

 

[Octopus]

High start up current? Take a lamp out and see what happens or change the breaker to a C curve?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Have you tested the installation?

 

[eagleeye]

Yeah cheers guys. Murdoch I thought it may be the start up current on the flood that caused the MCB to trip but I just thought i would get an LED for the flood as long as i can get the PIR's to work. Yes Spartykus installation has been tested and all fine

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Awesome dude. Mr Murdochs idea is my first thought too

 

[Octopus]

Does anyone have any useful information on how much "inrush" LED's have on "average"??

I realise this is a difficult question...... but it needs asking!

 

[davesparks]

It all depends on the quality of the driver circuit, but don't be surprised if you get 8-10x inrush with the cheap stuff.

 

[eagleeye]

To be honest guys the whole pub could do with a complete rewire. there is 2 3 phase boards. one which is a crabtree with C50 type MCB's (so about 300 years old !!) and this is the now which supplies the lights outside and some existing lights in the kitchen so putting an LED in for flood would be much easier probably

 

[Octopus]

It all depends on the quality of the driver circuit, but don't be surprised if you get 8-10x inrush with the cheap stuff.

Hum... that could make life interesting!

How about the decent drivers?

 

[Richard Burns]

Are you sure you have the LED retrofits correctly wired, if there is a short because of existing ballasts still in place this may cause problems.
That PIR can only handle 200W fluorescent, so may be struggling with the LED inrush and the 400W flood.

 

[eagleeye]

Are you sure you have the LED retrofits correctly wired, if there is a short because of existing ballasts still in place this may cause problems.
That PIR can only handle 200W fluorescent, so may be struggling with the LED inrush and the 400W flood.

Hi Richard I removed ballasts and starters. didn't realise the amount of inrush these led lamps get. The spec of the PIRs is Max 1000 watt incandescent and 300 watt fluorescent. Any ideas of way forward Richard ?

 

[Richard Burns]

Disconnect the light fittings, power up the circuit and test for PIR correct operation (maybe just wiring up a pendant or such if you are lazy like me), if the PIRs are working correctly then connect the flood light and power up again, if this works OK then disconnect the flood and connect one LED bulkhead, try again if this is OK start adding lights until the problem recurs.
Then disconnect all other lights and only connect the last light, if the problem if there then that is the faulty light.
If the fault occurs only when the last light is connected, then you have an inrush problem, then get PIRs with a greater capacity or use a more tolerant breaker.

 

[eagleeye]

Disconnect the light fittings, power up the circuit and test for PIR correct operation (maybe just wiring up a pendant or such if you are lazy like me), if the PIRs are working correctly then connect the flood light and power up again, if this works OK then disconnect the flood and connect one LED bulkhead, try again if this is OK start adding lights until the problem recurs.
Then disconnect all other lights and only connect the last light, if the problem if there then that is the faulty light.
If the fault occurs only when the last light is connected, then you have an inrush problem, then get PIRs with a greater capacity or use a more tolerant breaker.

thanks for that Richard. just hope the rain holds off tomorrow. many thanks

 

[Guest77]

You may well find the flood light is also contributing with the LEDs, the two together too much for the OCPD, I have known of some LED fittings which are supplied from a manufacturer who suggest special PIRs used rather than a standard type, It all depends on the type of PIR, how long it is set for etc etc, what the driver is like inside the light, can it handle short bursts of switching? get CEF to ask the manufacturer the question.

 

[shanky887614]

if your going to spend a lot of timr trying all these things, install a contactor/relay and job done

 

[Had8Lives]

Ive never wired PIRs in parallel, but if they are using a Triac to switch their load im guessing they wont like having a voltage fed into the output. Just a thought.

 

[HandySparks]

Ive never wired PIRs in parallel, but if they are using a Triac to switch their load im guessing they wont like having a voltage fed into the output. Just a thought.

Don't think it'll matter. After all, they'll have the same voltage on the input side, so they'll just have no voltage across the triac.

That said, I always use a PIR with relay output for lighting.