Pulling main fuse and smart meters

[Eric12]

This is an issue that is starting to get more of a ball ache for me, when theres a smart meter installed without an isolator and I really need to cut the power (CU change for example). My question really is this, has anyone here, or any of your customers been fined/reprimanded/imprisioned/threatened in any after a smart meter has alerted the provider that powers been cut, due to pulling the main fuse ? I ask now because im looking at ever increasing jobs now where the fuse really needs to be pulled and im becoming reluctant to do it; trying to explain to the customer is just annoying and many of them im sure have no idea. Its come to the stage now where instead of pulling the main fuse im taking tails out of a live henley block (if fitted). Ive seen on DS youtube channel that firms did exist that done the job for £90 or some such amount but have now stopped as its deemed unsafe/illegal/whatever. Ive also read ia previous Napit periodical that there was some kind of "training & certification" that would allow electricians to pull the main fuse, but that cans been kicked down the road once more by the looks of it. Anyways without going into a rant about it has anyone here, or any of your customers been fined/reprimanded/imprisioned/threatened for pulling a main fuse due to a smart meter alert ??

 

[Welchyboy1]

Nope!

I can’t see them going to any massive effort to go after a registered electrician who’s just pulled the fuse for a CU change, as long as the meter seals are still intact and especially if no tampering or theft of electricity has occurred

Id rather just pull it and argue the to ss later than risk working on live tails

 

[Eric12]

Nope!

I can’t see them going to any massive effort to go after a registered electrician who’s just pulled the fuse for a CU change, as long as the meter seals are still intact and especially if no tampering or theft of electricity has occurred

Id rather just pull it and argue the to ss later than risk working on live tails

Thats what I think/thought/assume, say for example you look a job where a smart meter has been installed last week, all sealed up looking lovelly without any isolator present. Then I need to cut the seals and make myself a potential criminal; its out of order and needs to be addressed seriously !

 

[buzzlightyear]

New customer of mine can't get a supplier to install a isolation switch until
July. I'm going to bed tonight and left a message under the pillow for fuse fairy's to got to the house to pull the fuse.

 

[Eric12]

New customer of mine can't get a supplier to install a isolation switch until
July. I'm going to bed tonight and left a message under the pillow for fuse fairy's to got to the house to pull the fuse.

That is the most sensible thing to do tbh from a "dont risk electrcutig yourself" perspective. Just a shame its not written into the regs somewhere as everything else seems to be, even down to the SPD scenario and zapping yourself while mowing the lawn in a lightning strike !

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I had the dno come once when i pulled fuse with a smets2 - only because he was literally streets away and the office could see his location relative to property i was at.
Depending on supplier and meter it flags loss of power and only some suppliers share info with dno.
He saw what i was doing and didn't mind. Even gave me some seals! Power was only off for around quarter of an hour so he was quick off mark.
He showed on his i pad what the dno call centre see and it flags up as loss of supply, they monitor it and if off for a prolonged period they investigate as a possible fault. If off for say 10 mins whilst you fit the isolator they dont care. If loads of meters flag loss of power they obviously have a network issue.
Smets 1 dont report home the same but smets2 have a whole host of alarms built in
Ssen let you pull the fuse and have a policy on it. Wpd dont but generally turn a blind eye.

 

[UNG]

The strange part of this problem of pulling the main fuse is in the last few years on a few jobs where I have had to get the DNO in to replace the old service head I got chatting to the DNO lads doing the jobs and I was left with a few seals to seal the service head and on one occasion the meter as well when I had finished the work so me pulling the fuse to do my work didn't seem to be a big issue for them

 

[Eric12]

I had the dno come once when i pulled fuse with a smets2 - only because he was literally streets away and the office could see his location relative to property i was at.
Depending on supplier and meter it flags loss of power and only some suppliers share info with dno.
He saw what i was doing and didn't mind. Even gave me some seals! Power was only off for around quarter of an hour so he was quick off mark.
He showed on his i pad what the dno call centre see and it flags up as loss of supply, they monitor it and if off for a prolonged period they investigate as a possible fault. If off for say 10 mins whilst you fit the isolator they dont care. If loads of meters flag loss of power they obviously have a network issue.
Smets 1 dont report home the same but smets2 have a whole host of alarms built in
Ssen let you pull the fuse and have a policy on it. Wpd dont but generally turn a blind eye.

Ok, so a smart meter alerts the DNO via some system called smets 1 or 2, is that right ? If so that makes me less concerned about being lambasted as the DNO are usually decent guys and on the ball; the service providers thou im not sure they would be so accommodating; good to know its not the service providers concern if that's what your getting at.

 

[pc1966]

That is the most sensible thing to do tbh from a "dont risk electrcutig yourself" perspective. Just a shame its not written into the regs somewhere as everything else seems to be, even down to the SPD scenario and zapping yourself while mowing the lawn in a lightning strike !

Ah but it is!

The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (which is a statutory law, unlike the regs) has regulation 14 that states:

No person shall be engaged in any work activity on or so near any live conductor (other than one suitably covered with insulating material so as to prevent danger) that danger may arise unless –
(a) it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead; and
(b) it is reasonable in all the circumstances for him to be at work on or near it while it is live; and
(c) suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury

See page 37 of the free document here:

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/hsr25.pdf

So while the meter company could jump up and down at procedure, I really doubt any judge would side with them for not having an isolator switch fitted and you having to pull the fuse to make repairs/upgrades safely as "unreasonable in all the circumstances".

 

[pc1966]

While obviously we cannot condone any sort of fuse-pulling activity on these forums, anyone who is doing that sort of work really should be trained to recognise when to leave it to the DNO. Basically anything looking damaged or very old would be an instant red flag.

Also when working on anything that is energised and very high energy you absolutely should be wearing suitable PPE to minimise the damage an arc-flash incident might case. For my own sins (which are many and varied, but not usually involving the DNO) I have ended up with this sort of stuff as a starting point:

TC42ESBJ | Penta White Safety Helmet with Chin Strap, Adjustable | RS

uk.rs-online.com

CATU CGM-00 Mechanical Insulated Gloves (500V) - Choice of Size

Insulated below 500V Work without leather overgloves Several sizes available

www.tester.co.uk

Click Flame Retardant Coverall (CFRBS) | PPG Workwear

Click Flame Retardant Coverall (CFRBS) Welders coverall. Protects against heat and flame. Concealed stud front to neck. Discounted prices.

ppgworkwear.co.uk

The visor is the obvious defence against something going BANG! in your face, but you need gloves to stop both the shock risk and the 3rd degree burns that an arc pushing out 1/4 MW can do in tens of milliseconds. Also you really don't want your cloths going on fire or melting to your skin, so natural fibres and welding-style overalls are a start!

For bigger stuff you get fancier PPE that is rated for much higher energy, etc, and hearing protection is also recommended for the blast wave you can get. True, you look like a worker battling Chernobyl clean-up, but folk doing that really ought to have a full risk assessment and establish the arc-flash energy values to chose it.

 

[Eric12]

Ah but it is!

The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 (which is a statutory law, unlike the regs) has regulation 14 that states:

No person shall be engaged in any work activity on or so near any live conductor (other than one suitably covered with insulating material so as to prevent danger) that danger may arise unless –
(a) it is unreasonable in all the circumstances for it to be dead; and
(b) it is reasonable in all the circumstances for him to be at work on or near it while it is live; and
(c) suitable precautions (including where necessary the provision of suitable protective equipment) are taken to prevent injury

See page 37 of the free document here:

https://www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/hsr25.pdf

Yea but could it be argued (probably not but I say it anyway) that a certain DNO's rule says its illegal to pull the main fuse (I know its subjective). Why cant they sort this out we electricians are in limbo land. I give you an example, a employee working for a EV charger firm doing one install per day, every property has a smart meter and no isolator. So he pulls a fuse every day, then he gets audited by an EV auditor, and the question is asked "did you pull the fuse ?" Who is in the wrong in the eyes of the auditor ?

 

[Eric12]

While obviously we cannot condone any sort of fuse-pulling activity on these forums, anyone who is doing that sort of work really should be trained to recognise when to leave it to the DNO. Basically anything looking damaged or very old would be an instant red flag.

Couldn't agree more, well said

 

[pc1966]

Yea but could it be argued (probably not but I say it anyway) that a certain DNO's rule says its illegal to pull the main fuse (I know its subjective). Why cant they sort this out we electricians are in limbo land. I give you an example, a employee working for a EV charger firm doing one install per day, every property has a smart meter and no isolator. So he pulls a fuse every day, then he gets audited by an EV auditor, and the question is asked "did you pull the fuse ?" Who is in the wrong in the eyes of the auditor ?

I think the policy varies a lot from DNO to DNO, but it is not something I usually get involved with. I believe there are some that issue temporary seals to registered sparks who ask (and probably have done some basic course) which would appear to be the best way forward.

I suspect the DNO's biggest concern is really about accidents involving a cut-out shorting before the main installation fuse and the resulting risk of fire, arc-flash injury, and damage to their network.

In many ways smart meters are more likely to pick up the theft of electricity as it would be fairly simple to see a meter's daily load drop suspiciously after a power interruption. Defiantly illegal, but less likely to kill someone than a fire.

 

[Eric12]

I think the policy varies a lot from DNO to DNO, but it is not something I usually get involved with. I believe there are some that issue temporary seals to registered sparks who ask (and probably have done some basic course) which would appear to be the best way forward.

I will deffo talk to the next DNO UKPN when I see one about the seal situation. Well good night and stay safe

 

[ipf]

The strange part of this problem of pulling the main fuse is in the last few years on a few jobs where I have had to get the DNO in to replace the old service head I got chatting to the DNO lads doing the jobs and I was left with a few seals to seal the service head and on one occasion the meter as well when I had finished the work so me pulling the fuse to do my work didn't seem to be a big issue for them

Same here. Same DNO for us, though.

Could be a bit awkward years ago but I've never really had any trouble and tend to get a top up of seals every so often.

 

[Welsh_sparky_21]

This is an issue that is starting to get more of a ball ache for me, when theres a smart meter installed without an isolator and I really need to cut the power (CU change for example). My question really is this, has anyone here, or any of your customers been fined/reprimanded/imprisioned/threatened in any after a smart meter has alerted the provider that powers been cut, due to pulling the main fuse ? I ask now because im looking at ever increasing jobs now where the fuse really needs to be pulled and im becoming reluctant to do it; trying to explain to the customer is just annoying and many of them im sure have no idea. Its come to the stage now where instead of pulling the main fuse im taking tails out of a live henley block (if fitted). Ive seen on DS youtube channel that firms did exist that done the job for £90 or some such amount but have now stopped as its deemed unsafe/illegal/whatever. Ive also read ia previous Napit periodical that there was some kind of "training & certification" that would allow electricians to pull the main fuse, but that cans been kicked down the road once more by the looks of it. Anyways without going into a rant about it has anyone here, or any of your customers been fined/reprimanded/imprisioned/threatened for pulling a main fuse due to a smart meter alert ??

Never had any problems doing it, had it do it a few times recently. I’ve probs changed more dbs that don’t have an isolator. Never had any fall back

 

[Eric12]

Never had any problems doing it, had it do it a few times recently. I’ve probs changed more dbs that don’t have an isolator. Never had any fall back

Neither have myself tbh, have had any fallback that is

 

[UNG]

Same here. Same DNO for us, though.

Could be a bit awkward years ago but I've never really had any trouble and tend to get a top up of seals every so often.

I'm right on the border of the ENWL and SP Energy Networks areas and never had a problem with either of them

 

[littlespark]

When you go to price a job for a CU change, tell the customer to contact their supplier to get a service isolator fitted. No CU change until that’s been done.

I’d rather not have the hassle of getting contacted weeks down the line to explain my actions on a particular day.

Yes, I’ve pulled the odd fuse…. After switching everything off. No load, no arc.
Yes I’ve pulled live tails out the outgoing side of a meter. Same, no load.

But I’d rather not have a smart meter reporting what I’m doing.

 

[Alan-N]

Had to pull a few doing EV chargers when the tails need to be upgraded and there is no isolator, I have self-adhesive seals issued by SSEN , there is no course, you simply contact them and as long as you are part of a CP scheme you get directed to a depot to pick them up 5 or 10 at a time, procedure can be found here https://www.ssen.co.uk/globalassets...electrical-contractors/1-pr-net-cab-009-1.pdf