Red & Black twin & earth

[Spikenaylor]

Can you still alter or repair circuits using the above cabling within an all red & black wiring installation?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes you can, but you should mark the terminations Brown and Blue, or with alphanumeric lables.
Regulations 514.3.1 and 514.3.2.

 

[Spikenaylor]

Why with blue and brown when the entire rest of the installation is red and black.

 

[brman]

well, I hesitate to argue with Spin :-O but 514.4.1 says the neutral must be blue if identified by colour. To me that means red/black T&E is not allowed.....

EDIT: hmmm.. ok. read 514.3.2 again. "identified at its termination and preferably through its length". Ok, Spin is right as expected

 

[Deleted member 26818]

514.3.1 requires cores of cables to be identified by either colour, lettering or numbering.
514.3.2 Requires the identification to be at the terminations.
It is only 514.4.2 which makes any reference to the colour of a conductor throughout it's entire length, and then only in respect to Single core protective conductors.

 

[brman]

514.3.1 requires cores of cables to be identified by either colour, lettering or numbering.
514.3.2 Requires the identification to be at the terminations.
It is only 514.4.2 which makes any reference to the colour of a conductor throughout it's entire length, and then only in respect to Single core protective conductors.

Yep, sorry, I posted a correction at the same time as you posted this

 

[ebow72]

Also isn't a 'Caution' notice required at the CU saying the installation has wiring colours to 2 versions of BS7671?
I have used them before..

 

[Guitarist]

It does seem a bit bizarre adding some brown/blue to an existing all-black/red install then labelling for 2 wiring colours but those are the rules.

 

[D80]

Crikey Red & Black went out when, 2004? Surprised after this time anyone still has it.

You could probably bluff it as an existing 16th edition pre 2004 install at a push although any test cert will be a bit of a give-away.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Crikey Red & Black went out when, 2004? Surprised after this time anyone still has it.

You could probably bluff it as an existing 16th edition pre 2004 install at a push although any test cert will be a bit of a give-away.

Who on earth would do anything as underhand as that ?? :angel_smile:

 

[spark 68]

It is not in BS7671, but in approved document Part P that prohibits it's use since 2006.

There was a changeover period between March 31st 2004 until 31st March 2006 where you could use either/or, new and old colours but not both.

Then past the cut off date you had to use the 'harmonised standard' or Brown/Blue/Black/Grey with the usual label this installation has wiring to two versions of BS7671 blah blah for any additions repairs etc.. to older installations.

The wording is still in the part P document, this is in app D .

 

[Engineer54]

I bet there are a lot of non Part P scheme holders that would love to get there hands on reels of old Red & BlackT&E cables!!! lol!!

 

[Guitarist]

I remember at the time some of the wholesalers were having people buy out their entire stocks of red/black cables. Wonder why they would want to do that....hmmm :wink_smile:

 

[dingledong]

yes i remember that too . i phoned lots up and it was all gone

though i still prefer red and black colours to the brown and blue

 

[Knobhead]

I can’t get my head around the fact that a fault can’t be repaired in the original colours. There’s no logical reason that I can see.

 

[Engineer54]

Logical went out the window just after commonsense went the same way!!

 

[spark 68]

I think it was more a political (say no more) decision, rather than a logical decision, in the latest Part Pee document it still refers to BS7671:2001 Amd2.

It is more likely the paperwork (if you provide any :wink_smile, if anything that stops you using it.

 

[Geordie Spark]

I remember at the time some of the wholesalers were having people buy out their entire stocks of red/black cables. Wonder why they would want to do that....hmmm :wink_smile:

Those buyers are probably now the e-bay sellers of this stuff.