Retro style pendant lights and 3 plate wiring

[mattg4321]

Got a couple of fittings to put up for a customer soon. Wiring 3x 1mm T+E - 3 plated at ceiling light. No access to floor above. Customer is adamant they want these light fittings put up (or very similar).

Anybody got any clever ideas? To be honest I can't see any way this is going to work short of changing the plate on the ceiling to something similar but bigger/ bodging it with wages pushed into the ceiling void which clearly I'm not going to be doing.

http://www.lampsandlights.co.uk/images/zoom_ceiling-plate-small-single-cordgrip-metal-antique.jpg

 

[davesparks]

Is that besa standard size? If it is then a round plasterboard box might work, depending on ceiling construction and the weight of the fitting

 

[cdavies33]

Galv conduit loop in box or there is moulded wooden bases made for these

Large Wooden Ceiling Rose

 

[damo-p]

As mentioned above a round dry lining box if ceiling allows.

Buy Scolmore Click round Circular Dry lining box WA108P, Online from Websparky

 

[mattg4321]

Unfortunately cutting a box in isn't going to be an option as theres a 4x2 nogging above!

The wooden ceiling rose isn't going to give me any more space for connections?

 

[davesparks]

Unfortunately cutting a box in isn't going to be an option as theres a 4x2 nogging above!

The wooden ceiling rose isn't going to give me any more space for connections?

So cut a loop in box into the noggin, you only need a holesaw to chop it in

 

[Aindowsimon]

You can get wot is essentially a loop in box but with antique brass finish I've got one in the van I think


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cdavies33]

Unfortunately cutting a box in isn't going to be an option as theres a 4x2 nogging above!

The wooden ceiling rose isn't going to give me any more space for connections?

If you drill the hole to 38mm, yeah.. You've got yourself a teeny tiny enclosure. Plus the depth of the flex outlet. Just 3 x 1 mm you got? If not galv loop in box

 

[cdavies33]

So cut a loop in box into the noggin, you only need a holesaw to chop it in

Ouch! thats nasty

 

[davesparks]

Ouch! thats nasty

What's nasty about it?

 

[cdavies33]

Weakening the joist holding the ceiling up

 

[sparksburnout]

Why don't you just cut a hole in the ceiling/noggin large enough to stuff wago connectors up and then just mount the fitting over the top? If there is no access above it's not going to pose a problem is it? Sometimes you just got to do what you have to do.

 

[ifindoubtdont]

All I can say is, where theres a will theres a bodge, with all our years of EXPERIENCE we should be able to come up with something the customer won,t notice or even say "Oooh that's nice".

 

[mattg4321]

Won't be just shoving the connections up into the void that's for sure. Proper lash up in my opinion! Bathroom above. What happens when it's refitted a few years down the line and the bodge is exposed!

Nogging was put there for the light fitting so cutting a hole out of it isn't a problem. The loop in box is a good idea. Lets hope the distance between screw holes is right!

 

[sparksburnout]

Won't be just shoving the connections up into the void that's for sure. Proper lash up in my opinion! Bathroom above. What happens when it's refitted a few years down the line and the bodge is exposed!

Nogging was put there for the light fitting so cutting a hole out of it isn't a problem. The loop in box is a good idea. Lets hope the distance between screw holes is right!

If you are worried just crimp and heat shrink them. There ain't a sparky in the land who has not done similar if there is REALLY no alternative. If it is "discovered" down the line the next guy will think "oh yeah I can see why he did that". There are 1000's of similar fittings up and down the land, stop overthinking it.

 

[Sintra]

Change the rose to one of these Antique Brass Ceiling Rose with metal cord grip there's loads of room for connections.

 

[sparksburnout]

Change the rose to one of these Antique Brass Ceiling Rose with metal cord grip there's loads of room for connections.

Good suggestion, although might not fit in with the customers requirements. They are in charge, at the end of the day.....

 

[davesparks]

Weakening the joist holding the ceiling up

How on earth is cutting a hole in a 4"x2" noggin going to weaken any joist?
A noggin and a joist are not the same thing! I very much doubt that it is a joist if it is only 4"x2" as joists are normally a damn sight bigger due to having a load bearing floor on them.

I realise I assumed that the noggin in question has been fitted purely for supporting the light, but what else would it likely be for at those dimensions?

 

[davesparks]

Won't be just shoving the connections up into the void that's for sure. Proper lash up in my opinion! Bathroom above. What happens when it's refitted a few years down the line and the bodge is exposed!

Nogging was put there for the light fitting so cutting a hole out of it isn't a problem. The loop in box is a good idea. Lets hope the distance between screw holes is right!

That's why I asked if its a standard besa pattern (they usually are)

 

[Andy78]

Good suggestion, although might not fit in with the customers requirements. They are in charge, at the end of the day.....

I've fitted those exact ones and there is heaps of room inside for connections.

 

[sparksburnout]

I've fitted those exact ones and there is heaps of room inside for connections.

Well, its all just part of the job.......

 

[LankyWill]

what on earths 3 plate wiring, do you mean fed light?

 

[davesparks]

what on earths 3 plate wiring, do you mean fed light?

3 plate wiring is where the feeds are taken to the light with a switch drop from each light, this utilises three connections (plates)

 

[7029 dave]

what on earths 3 plate wiring, do you mean fed light?

So you have never heard of 3plate wiring system.? It is the ceiling rose loop in/ out plus S/L .

 

[7029 dave]

fyi

 

[sparksburnout]

what on earths 3 plate wiring, do you mean fed light?

I think the lads are being a bit pendantic Lanky, hehe.

 

[amlu]

bit of digging above the light, now we have wago connectors and is quite possible to make a tidy job out of it. no more choc bloc and tape mess you see every day. in extreme cases solder+heatshrink method comes even smaller and neater but you need some practice.

 

[telectrix]

or use the tried and trusted chocblocks, wrap with 2 layers of insulation tape and stuff up in the ceiling. it's standard manufacturers instructions with B&Q light fittings, and BS7671 says that these should be followed/taken into consideration. :17:

 

[hasel5]

I would of thought you would be able to terminate within the back of the rose you showed if only 3 x 1mm twins just a bit of careful dressing and done

 

[telectrix]

I would of thought you would be able to terminate within the back of the rose you showed if only 3 x 1mm twins just a bit of careful dressing and done

let's not get into the cross dressing scene yet. it's too early in the morning. :stuart:

 

[DPG]

Weakening the joist holding the ceiling up

It's not a joist - it's a noggin, presumably for screwing the light fitting to. Daz

 

[LankyWill]

I think the lads are being a bit pendantic Lanky, hehe.

I know mate, talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. As for the op, just dog wago's in the ceiling and wrap a bit of black tape around them. As long as their accessible who cares! Or you can take 6 hours pratting around with a conduit box trying too hard. Dont work on price you would go hungry!

 

[Dave OCD]

I know mate, talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. As for the op, just dog wago's in the ceiling and wrap a bit of black tape around them. As long as their accessible who cares! Or you can take 6 hours pratting around with a conduit box trying too hard. Dont work on price you would go hungry!

Be pro and use the right colour tape over each Wago. :tongue3:

 

[LankyWill]

Be pro and use the right colour tape over each Wago. :tongue3:

Dammit! Your right Dave shouldn't let myself down like that. Some people make you chuckle, talk about overthinking it. Hows your lad getting on?

 

[7029 dave]

Those boxes that house the wago connectors are so small, you could push that up into the ceiling,or even the very small type 4 terminal jb.

 

[Dave OCD]

He's doing very well thanks Will, very keen and wants to have a go at doing lots of things, I think he'll make a good sparky.

 

[davesparks]

Or you can take 6 hours pratting around with a conduit box trying too hard. Dont work on price you would go hungry!

If you are that slow then you are t going to make any money anyway.
It doesn't take five minutes to flush a loop in box in to a noggin.

 

[LankyWill]

He's doing very well thanks Will, very keen and wants to have a go at doing lots of things, I think he'll make a good sparky.

Thats the best attitude to have, we get some right idiots! stand there, on their phone all day and have no GO about them. He should be a good spark if your teaching him mate

 

[LankyWill]

Those boxes that house the wago connectors are so small, you could push that up into the ceiling,or even the very small type 4 terminal jb.

If your struggling with space, you could twist and tape the connections! Seems to be the approved technique by chancers everywhere!

 

[Dave OCD]

Thats the best attitude to have, we get some right idiots! stand there, on their phone all day and have no GO about them. He should be a good spark if your teaching him mate

Thanks very much mate, I think the obsession with phones is an epidemic now tbh, so many people and not just youngsters can't seem to leave them alone for 5 minutes ?!