Rubber

[cliffed]

Call out to a b&b late afternoon ,various little jobs,but,behind a king sized bed was a broken socket.This is where it goes pear shaped,cable rubber,all cables are bare,insulation just crumbling.Its getting on a bit now,can't isolate the cable,cos other sockets are on same circuit going to other rooms,& all occupied,I no I shouldn't attempt this but,under pressure a bit,so me being clever, thought disconnect the cable from where it's coming from,another socket in the nxt bedroom.Once again all cables are bare,rubber,left in a hurry,with all fuses taken out,gotta return today,not looking forward to it.obviously major probs here,but the most annoying thing,other sparks have continually done work here, not one mentioned rubber cabling ,why?

 

[Hawkmoon]

When you say that other electricians did not mention this, was this what the owner said?

I never take at face value what customers say about previous electricians, they often have reasons for fibbing.

Sounds like the place needs a full inspection as a matter of urgency - in the meantime I would isolate those circuits and discuss with the owner how he/she wants to proceed.

 

[GMES]

You have 2 choices here imo, either shutdown the circuits and carry out immediate remedial work, if it is as dangerous as you suggest , then you have a duty of care to the owners and their paying guests the public. or option 2 put your tools away and leave. I would rather loose money on a job than endanger anyone's life, but only you can decide.

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You have 2 choices here imo, either shutdown the circuits and carry out immediate remedial work, if it is as dangerous as you suggest , then you have a duty of care to the owners and their paying guests the public. or option 2 put your tools away and leave. I would rather loose money on a job than endanger anyone's life, but only you can decide.

Hawkmoon beat me to it.

 

[Rockingit]

VIR that is still in service today is almost certainly all past it's best and perishing at a rapid rate. There's even a specific recommendation in Part P to replace it all.

Last job I attended where it had perished was resulting in visible flames. I found, tucked behind a heating pipe, the danger notice that had been issued a year earlier on the place by British Gas after someone had very nearly been electrocuted.

If it's as bad as you say (put some pics up on here) then if I were you I'd write out an electrical danger notice (I think there's a download on here if you search for it if you don't have any already), and give the customer a serious talking to. Explain that having issued the EDN you have a duty to notify the DNO (which you do, btw). *You probably DON'T need to be in quite such a panic, but it's a way of driving home the need that they have to do something*. If it's a B&B then there are all sorts of other implications.

Bottom line is that you HAVE to isolate the faulty sections no matter what - if that's just a couple of old legs then 'fine', if it means ripping the fuse out then fine also.

BUT - we could do with some pics and more info as I might be completely over-playing this.

 

[Farmelectrics]

Issue a danger certificate recommend a re wire and don't do any further work

 

[BlueToBits]

I'm not sure if an electrician has the legal authority to disconnect the power to an installation irrespective of how 'dangerous' the electrician may deem that installation to be, without the house-holder's permission. AFAIAA the 'Danger notice' exists purely to allow an electrician to bring a dangerous condition to the owner's attention to prove the electrician has complied with his duty of care. I don't know of any statutory obligation or requirement on behalf of the electrician to do anything about the situation. It is the owner's right to have dangerous electrics if he or she wants to, and the electrician is denying the householder of that right.
I may be wrong. Can anyone confirm?

 

[Hawkmoon]

I'm not sure if an electrician has the legal authority to disconnect the power to an installation irrespective of how 'dangerous' the electrician may deem that installation to be, without the house-holder's permission. AFAIAA the 'Danger notice' exists purely to allow an electrician to bring a dangerous condition to the owner's attention to prove the electrician has complied with his duty of care. I don't know of any statutory obligation or requirement on behalf of the electrician to do anything about the situation. It is the owner's right to have dangerous electrics if he or she wants to, and the electrician is denying the householder of that right.
I may be wrong. Can anyone confirm?

I think you are 'technically' correct - but it is not the owner's right to have 'dangerous electrics' if he/she rents out the rooms to paying customers - It's just a case of how you describe the realities when you have the 'chat' with the owner - in my experience most will accept your recommendations if you apply them convincingly.

 

[Rockingit]

As I understand it, under ESQCR the DNO's have an obligation, therefore the right to disconnect. There are some vague bits of law about rights of way and access to properties for protection of the public by utility companies.

The State interferes with so much of the rest of our lives that I think this is pretty small beer tbh.

 

[7029 dave]

If that was me I would pull the fuse on that circuit, explain to the customer that the circuit is dangerous and needs rewiring asap.If they re energise circuit well that's down to them. What else can you do?. If they don't take your advice it their problem.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I'd go a little further and put something in the way of them re-energising, like a sign taped over the fuseway with a warning not to energise, then take a picture of it. Also advise them of the danger in writing, and keep a copy. Then no-one can argue that they didn't understand the importance of what you were telling them.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

As above keep a paper trail and get them to sign for it saying they have been told. After this leave the fuses and it's up to them.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Taken a picture before of the pertinent circuit in the off position.